I thought this remarkable woman deserves her own thread. Months ago when she was floated as a potential veep, I read up on her. There is also a good article of her (as governor) in one of the recent Alaska magazines. At first blush, she reminds me of the movie Unsinkable Molly Brown with Debbie Reynolds. If there is anyone whose private life will resonate with the average American in this list of candidates, it is hers. What I like is her strength of character. She talks the talk and walks the walk....no bones about it. Experience? Well, there have been other outstanding leaders on the national scene that had little or no experience in Washington, D.C. at the start. But remember this, even though she is young (to me, anyway), she has spent more time behind a desk where the buck stops than either Obama or Biden. The two of them have always held positions that involved collective responsibility. McCain isn't too heavy along these lines either, but his time as a squadron commander will qualify in my opinion. Of course, much remains to be learned of this fine lady, but for now, to me she's a breath of fresh air.

Good thread, Heikki! I am afraid that no matter what comes out about Sarah Palin she will be thought of as a light-weight.
She has so little public exposure that it is hard to make her a strong asset to McCain.
People are going to say that Alaska doesn't have the same problems as the lower 48 by any means.
Therefore she doesn't have the "right' experience.
I think Obama's group is going to tread carefully at first to not offend Hillary backers who might vote for a woman to spite her not being on the ticket. This is one of the most interesting presidential races I can remember.

Yes, that may prove to be true, Tom, she being viewed as a lightweight. But when I look at both slates, all I see is lightweights. I guess this is the year of the lightweights, huh? LOL Whatever the case, within my circle of friends and acquaintances, Sarah on the ticket has supercharged their enthusiasm. Several have been refusing to contribute to McCain's campaign thus far, but now have opened their wallets. Think I read where his campaign took a $7M bounce within a couple days of announcing the 'Cuda as Veep. Looking forward to the debates.

It’s amazing how the long weekend had barely wound down and the dirt from the liberal shark media has already started to pile up. Their shovels are ker-chunking away into the life of Sarah Palin at full steam already. I just have to laugh that it’s so pathetic.
Yes, her daughter’s pregnant. Oh boy!...I suppose that’s just a terrible thing! Bad parenting! Bad child! Dysfunctional family!...It’ll all be mentioned. Wait and see.
A DUI that her husband got at the young and feisty age of 22!..Bad upbringing! Out of control drunk! Abusive parent! Bad guy in general! It’ll all come out.
You know what?...In either of these cases are you seeing something that even surprises you? Sorry dirt dwelling criticizers...If that’s your best so far, your best won’t do!
I’ll bet anyone living here in the U.S. has known or known of someone not too immediately far from them that was in the same scenario of an unexpected teen pregnancy or a DUI.
I commend B.O. for coming right out and saying that we should leave families alone and keep them out of the race for the White House. He should wake up and thank God every day ( or is that Allah to him? ) that the Lib media is on his side.
Sarah Palin is as close as it gets to a woman who can relate directly to the average American household Mom and Dad. I know, I might have instantaneously become a starry eyed fan of hers because of the fact that she’s a hunter, fisherwoman, a gun enthusiast and she’s pretty to boot. Maybe because I’m an outdoorsman myself. That’s not all that I see in her as a VP candidate but it helps.
Some will say that Alaska don’t have a lot of the problems that faces other parts of the country. Alaska has issues that are unique to it’s people and geographical region. Though they may differ from other parts, I feel that if Sarah Palin is able to live and meet the unique tough challenges of life in Alaska can throw at you and succeed then she’s tough enough to take on Washington.
The quality and integrity, of the Alaskan people that I’ve met when I’ve visited there and Alaskans I’ve met elsewhere really says something about them. Maybe the rest of America should stand up and take note. They could learn something. You go Sarah!

They were not teen's but in there young twenties, who both mother and daughter are in my family.
Oh and belive it. There is nothing going to come out to sling dirt at Sarah that John don't know about. Looking forward to what will be printer here.

Certainly no doubt Guv Palin can deliver a rousing speech and quickly recover from changing conditions. Just learned the teleprompter operator erred about halfway through her speech and kept the words rolling during a long applause last night. She didn't miss a beat. This woman is a natural. None of that um....oh....uh....uh....stuff. Great job, 'Cuda!

We right-wing conservatives in the tri-state area of Indiana-Ohio-Kentucky are delighted to have a stunning Republican "Bimbo" in the person of Sarah Palin representing many of our political views. Bring on the "Bimbo Eruptions" you liberal lame-brains!

Attorneys beware, she's a better shot than Dick Cheney!

Hey, even though this is a 'thread' shouldn't we all remain polite and refrain from juvenile put-downs?

I am a liberal, and as far from a lame-brain as you can imagine. Are all people with differing views stupid to you?

I'm just wondering that since McCain has spent half his campaign on 'Obama lacks experience' why would he choose someone with absolutely no experience to carry on if something should happen to him!?

What kind of experience would you like? Being a Mayor and also Governor of our Largest State is plenty of experience, in my book. Not all Presidential candidates have been Senators and Congressmen. Military careers have been accepted as plenty of experience in the past. We need to think out of the box and stop all the 'grade school playground tactics' as you said, Maija. It’s way below the belt.

Obama has very little experience as a Senator. Not even two years, is that correct? And he has spent most of the last year and a half campaigning, not serving in Congress. His terms in Illinois haven't shown any outstanding work---yet. He has never worked for a private corporation--I tend to not consider working for a law firm a private corporation such as GE, Boeing, etc.. The scary part to me is that he is accustomed to the gov't being the direction to turn for help. Those community agencies are both federally and state funded.
That is why that kind of person worries me. They bring on socialism even though they will deny believing in such. More gov't programs and thus more gov't employees.
I just read that some Saudi backer got Obama into Harvard law school. Don't know the truth of that.
Palin is perhaps too honest and straight forward?
Public won't believe she is as strong a person as her work vita indicates?
The press is running to Alaska to find out what kind of altercation she had with a librarian!!!

I'm not out to change anyone's views. I completely understand the views that conservative people hold. I respect these views and am the last person to argue with anyone over them. I just don't agree with them, and I don't appreciate being called a lame-brain because I am a liberal. I do not engage in name calling!

As for Sarah Pallin's experience, it was not my intention to criticize her, but she does not have any experience in federal government which is what Mc Cain is hammering at Obama for, even though he has been in the US Senate. I just was thinking it was a strange choice, perhaps political, or even hypocritical? I know governors, military leaders, etc. have served the federal government. I was not commenting on her as much as on how I wonder about this contradiction from McCain.

And also, I SERIOUSLY RESENT the implication that because I am a liberal I would call Sarah Pallin a "bimbo"

Take out the log in your eye before you criticize the speck in your neighbor's.

You must realize that the press wants to paint Palin as a bimbo or such--------the liberal press, that is.
This thread is to exchange ideas and not attempt to convert people to a different way of thinking. The diverse opinions of our population is a large part of the success of our country. The longest running democracy in the history of the world.
Having observed some of the European parliaments it would be nice to have more than a two-party system.
While there are more than two parties on the ballot the minor parties are too small to even force a compromise.

Re name calling, "if the shoe fits" wear it with comfort knowing that you can retaliate in kind but are above such rude behavior. Name calling and labeling people is a fault most of us right-wing conservatives seem to enjoy. I apologize to those whom I offended.

A first time president is going to have to go through a learning curve when they get in office. Be it Obama or McCain, if they surround themselves with the right kind of people, political advisors and political strategists of various sorts they both could handle the position. I'm sure of that. I think both men are intelligent as well. I wouldn't vote for Obama and I'm not really crazy about voting for McCain either.
Sarah Palin is the only bright star that would even make that choice bearable and I've been a staunch Republican for many years. Yes, I voted for GW twice but that don't mean that I have to agree or approve with the way he handled the job.
It's amazing how the big debate seems to be about experience of Obama vs. Palin and old codgers Joe and John are not getting the attention as much. LOL...Maybe it's because B.O. and Sexy Sarah are the faces of the future when it comes to politics.
When you compare experience it really is summed up between a Governor and a Senator like this:
OBAMA...is like a flight engineer on a 747...The flight engineer for say, has sat for two and a half years in that third seat behind the captain and co-pilot. Sure he knows the airplane pretty well when it comes to systems, communications, and navigation...but then one day he steps up to the captain's chair and all of sudden says: "TODAY I"M GOING TO FLY THIS AIRPLANE...I NEVER HAVE FLOWN BEFORE BUT TODAY IS MY TURN."
Then you got SARAH...(and she does fly a small plane,in fact)...She has had two years experience flying a Lear Jet but today she steps up to the 747 captain's chair and says: "TODAY I"M GOING TO FLY THIS AIRPLANE...I'VE NEVER FLOWN A PLANE THIS BIG BUT TODAY I WAS PUT IN THIS POSITION TO DO SO."....That's about the caliber of experience between a Senator and a Governor...
Now you tell me if you were someone who was fatefully strapped in on that 747 with no choice but to go for the ride...Who would you trust at the controls? .................and oh, I agree about not personally attacking people. Liberals are people with feelings and a heart, too...Just give 'em a big hug and pray for them that they see the light one day!...

Perhaps this is a dumb question, but just what experience did Bill Clinton have in federal government, prior to his running for President in 1992?

During his college years Bill Clinton served as a summer volunteer in the Deferments/Evasion section of the Selective Service System.

Remember not only to say the right thing in the right place, but far more difficult still, to leave unsaid the wrong thing at the tempting moment.

So Snowman, you chose to say nothing. Wise choice...........

It was my understanding that McCain was hammering Obama for his lack of leadership experience. A mayor or a governor has serious leadership responsibilities, actually running a government. In addition, a governor is the Commander-In-Chief of the state's National Guard, so a governor has at least some military leadership responsibilities. On the other hand, a state senator or a U.S. Senator might make laws, but they have no direct, line responsibilities running a government or a corporation, or the like. McCain was a leader in the Navy. He lead a squadron, which punches his leadership card. He retired from the Navy as a Captain, a leadership position. Obama has no such leadership experience.

Saying the right thing can be seen as a form of appeasement. There are times when appeasement is the wrong thing, such as how Chamberlain dealt with Hitler.

This was in my mail box from a friend who got it in his/her mail box from a friend,who we are proud not to be called a Liberal,and we were not called a Communist or Socialist growing up in the U.P. back in the 50's and 60's. Liberal's say they are opened minded.It is time to plug some of them holes.I would be insulted to be called a Liberal.I don't think me David, could learn to become one.

By Cynical Alaskan

From an Alaskan who is a very serious cynic about all things political, here is my take on Sarah.

I met and spoke with Sarah Palin about two years ago at our downtown park strip. It is a place for walking, carnivals, political outdoor things and such. She was cooking hotdogs at a fund raiser and introducing herself to the public as a Governor hopeful.

She came by and said the usual "Hi, I'm Sarah Palin and I am running for Governor"...and I expected her to keep on to the next person but she asked me who I was and what I did in Alaska and we ended up talking for 15 minutes about me, Air America (she was all agog!) and my career in the Army and AAM. She is a pilot (Super Cub) I'm told, although all she told me about that was that she loved flying.

As I watched her successful run for governor over the next six months, I was really impressed. In fact I already was impressed greatly even before that, after she resigned a good position (Alaska Gas and Oil Regulatory Commission) because a fellow Commission member (Chair of the Alaska Republican Party) misused his office and position. He was using the fax, computers, printing room and all to promote the Republican endeavors while in a state job. That is a huge no-no in any government employment position.

She resigned and made her point, and within weeks Randy Ruderich (the above bad guy) found his butt out on the street and a subsequent investigation found him guilty and he was fined $12,000. Small change actually but a giant point was made.

Next she went after our most horrible Governor ever, Governor Murkowski, and damned if she didn't beat him! All of us here in Alaska, except the Democrats, are sick of our state's corruption. That fact was shouted to the heavens after she was elected with an overwhelming point spread.

After she got into office she started going after corrupt legislators, and with the FBI's help we've put four of them in prison, indicted six more and the "Corrupt •••••••'s Club" as they arrogantly called themselves (even had hats made with CBC on the front!) suddenly found it no fun anymore.

The current flap which has cost her a ten point loss of popularity (she's still 82%!) was over firing a popular Commissioner of Public Safety who is responsible for our Alaska State Troopers. She fired him for no stated reason, which was her prerogative as the guv. He served entirely at her option. She and her whole family had a bad, bad experience with a rogue Trooper who was married to Sarah's sister. His name is Trooper Wooten. This dimwit Trooper had threatened Sarah's father (death threat!), threatened Sarah ("I'll get you too"), Tasered his 12 year old stepson, drove drunk in his AST cruiser, got a pass by a fellow Trooper who stopped him for erratic driving a second time while in civvies, and just a host of other things not yet released to the public. He got away with it and got another pass by the Commissioner's appointed AST Trooper Internal Affairs investigator with a tiny slap on the wrist. Five days off without pay to be exact.

This maverick Trooper is still on the payroll but only just. The union's intervention saved his malcontent butt. He'll yet get his, I'm sure. Incredible heat is being heaped on the Troopers. Public heat, not the Governors office.

The Democrats had the audacity to appoint an obviously biased investigator, Rep. "Gunny" French (so called because he lied about being in the USMC while running for the legislature) is a staunch liberal and probably under the orders of Senate President Lyda Green who hates Sarah. She hates Sarah because after being elected Governor Sarah told the whole Legislature in one of her first meetings with them that, quote; "All of you here need some Adult Supervision!"

Sarah was seriously angry and not afraid of anyone there. That played wonderfully well with Alaskans. We are sick of all of our corruption watched her successful battles against a seriously entrenched corrupt government before she took on the legislature. The whole legislature was angry back at her and still are, but also afraid of her because of her popularity.

She reminds me personally of our Alaska wolverine which will fight anything in its path if it sees fit to do so. No respect at all for size or position.

In closing I must tell you that she is the best, most moral and most focused leader I've seen since President Reagan. I feel, really strongly that like Alaska, the rest of our country will love her within a few weeks. Put simply, she represents Middle America like no leader we've ever had.

I think McCain made a totally brilliant move in choosing her. She's a maverick who is probably tougher and more focused than McCain himself... and she won't be a total yes man, or more appropriately, yes woman.

McCain will love her.

In 2012 she will be President.

The author prefers to remain anonymous.

To those who would like to get as factual information as possible re: Sarah Palin's time as mayor, Wasilla, AK has a page dedicated to her on their website
because they have been inundated with requests for info.

Good post, David! We have to keep in mind that it's still the media that is attempting to tear Sarah down...As for the running party campaigns themselves, they talk about what each other "don't do" but are not as critical...
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that the media favors and works in the favor of the Demoncrats. They immediately try to dig dirt on Sarah right away about her, her daughter, her husband. On the other hand, the liberal backed media don't mock and make fun about B.O. at all. They don't make a big deal out of stuff like the fact that he has ties to the New Black Panther party and William Ayers. They don't take jabs at his family like the fact that he has half brothers living in Kenya in stick huts.
Hopefully, the American people are smart enough to see through the media storm for what it is and think for themselves.

Dave's article was a blog from the 'American Thinker"
Dated September 3, 08
How Sarah Palin Handled Corruption
By Cynical Alaskan
The author prefers to remain anonymous.

Thank you Theresa, I was being Lazy on dial up.. should have checked myself. You sent that to me too, Gene?

All the Media should be Off Limits to the Children no matter how old they are, as it was for Bill Clinton and Hilary daughter. Clinton has been said to have been our first Black President.Has anyone else ever heard that re-mark?

I did explain on top of my last post that below is from a Cynical Alaskan,so thank you Eddie, yes it was a good read.

So sad, there are still people saying Reagan was the greatest president we ever had. Did you all sleep through his time in office as he obviously did?

Don't you get it Roger? You stated he slept thru the whole time. That way he couldn't hurt the country. Maybe if McCain gets elected he will do the same. You have to think possitivly. Like will Obama be like the exmayor of Detroit, and scandalize our country? He has the expresident Clinton to show him. With Clintons tutalage he probably wont get caught.

For the anti-Reagan crowd------------Clinton inherited the solid economy set up during the Reagan era. Economies do not change in a few years. It takes much longer.

Does anyone know if Sarah Palin has some Finnish blood, that her great-grandfather's last name was Palinen? Wouldn't that be interesting!

Palin is her husbands name .. I believe her's was Heath before she was married.

Matt, Palin is her married name. Her husband has a lot of Alaskan Eskimo blood. I don't remember hearing about his other relatives, but I would not be surprised if Finnish were one of the components. I don't know what his dad is/was. I haven't heard about his parents, directly.

PALIN-PALINEN-PALONEN
It is possible that there is some Finn blood in the Palin family. There were quite a large number of Finns in Alaska as early as 1788. Most of the Finns were involved in the fur trades. However,in 1839 Arvid Adolf Etholen set sail with his family and 53 others from Finland on the ship Nikolai and arrived in Sitka,Alaska on May 12,1840. Etholen who was of Finn Blood was the was Governor General of Sitka from 1840 to 1845. There were 500 Europeans in Sitka at the time and over half were of Finn origin.Also Pastor Uno Cygnaeus (also a Finn)was the first Lutheran preacher in Sitka. Cygnaeus arrived on the Nikoli with Etholen.

Governor Palin was born Sarah Louise Heath. She's Irish, English, and German. Dunno much about her hubby, except for his part Eskimo ancestry. As Gusso and Marianne state, there is a fair chance he may have Finnish lineage as well because of the prominence of Finns that participated in settling Alaska.

Thanks for setting me straight on Sarah's maiden name. I knew Palin was her husband's name, but I erred in how I asked whether it could have been of Finnish origin. I read of Finnish settlers in Alaska, I imagine some of their names were Anglicized or Alaskacized.

Just learned some more regarding Guv Palin: Her father is English and German, her mother, Irish (nee Sheeran). Now I understand her temperament. ;-) Todd Palin's father is a native of Seattle, WA, so the possiblity of a Finnish connection there is just as good as Alaska, if not better. Todd's mother is Alaska-born and is 1/4 Yupik. Todd was born in Dillingham, AK, once the salmon capital of the world. It's located on Bristol Bay. Does the name Bristol ring a bell?

Here's a link addressing the surname Palin:
http://wiki.name.com/en/Palin

It indicates a large percentage of immigrants with the surname Palin came to the United States from Sweden, Germany, England and Norway.

Then there is Leo Palin, the Finnish tennis pro. His surname may possibly be anglicized, Swedish, a stage name, or maybe original Soumalainen, eh?

NO comments on last night's debate? Seems the local press and WPR talk show guests think Palin held her own. Did she add or deduct from the overall McCain/Palin effort to win the election?

She held her own and then some but had to speak McCain's lines. She could have hit a home run had she not watered down the cause of the GSE meltdown crisis. Anybody who has studied the history of GSE's knows Wall Street greed was not the real culprit. However, she did allay many fears regarding her ability to go toe-to-toe. I don't think her performance changed many minds, but if McCain loses he can't blame her. Joe Biden also did better than expected. Maybe it's because of the short time limits. lol. Gwen Ifil did a great job of moderating despite her public support for Obama. Overall, Biden gets the nod for comprehensive answers, but then, that's his forte after "a hundred years" in the senate.

"… the root cause of the GSE meltdown crisis"

For those who may have been out to lunch, and failed to see the handwriting on the wall, this from The New York Times (Published: September 30, 1999):

Click → Fannie Mae Eases Credit To Aid Mortgage Lending

We can thank Sen. Dodder, Sen. Schemer, Rep. Barney Frank, Sen. Obama's pal Franklin D. Raines (a prime candidate for Secretary of the Treasury?) and those whose mission for Fannie Mae was to turn "affordable housing" into an entitlement — for those who could not afford it!

But of course they will tell you that it is all George Bush's fault!

Thanks, FRNash, I was looking for that article from the past. Need to have some of my acquaintances read it. Why the McCain group have not brought this up I wonder. Perhaps McCain also pushed for those loans???

Yes, good article...Although there was a lot of good things that did come out of the Clinton era, people tend to forget that it was a push by the Clinton Administration to make owning a home more affordable for people who had no business taking out a loan for a home to begin with thus starting the festering problem we have today...It is ultimately the fault of the lenders as well if not more...Greed...
On top of that, it was also Bill Clinton that signed off on the expansion and extension of open trade with China in Oct. 1999 on his way out of office. It was the least he could do to return the favor for the Chinese contributors to his 1996 presidential campaign that got him reelected... It in turn allowed them to dominate our thirst for cheap labor and prices on goods which in turn bolstered their economy and way of life. They no longer ride bicycles and pull man run two wheel taxi carts around Hong Kong anymore...They drive lots and lots of automobiles! It caused the global demand for oil to go up along with India doing the same thing and driving prices up to boot...

A TV program recently included a segment with a comment that Sarah Palin was related to president F. D. Roosevelt, who records show has some Finnish ancestors. Maybe Palin has some Finnish blood after all.

Regarding turning affordable housing into an entitlement, records show that there was little or no objection by Republican Congress members when Fannie Mae was introduced and enacted. And, thoughtful and careful scrutiny into who some of the people are who have been, and are, financially benefitting from such entitlement action doesn't exclude grateful Republicans, including myself. "Flipping" homes can be very profitable.

Matt Karhu (Matt_k):
"… president F. D. Roosevelt … has some Finnish ancestors."

1. I'd be very interested in learning more about that. Can you provide some references/citations?

2. On GSE reform, this from The White House might be of interest, click → Setting the Record Straight: Six Years of Unheeded Warnings for GSE Reform

(At the risk of my contributing to the further divergence of this discussion from the nominal subject of this thread!)

FRNash: I should have said "anecdotal records" in the statement about F. D. Roosevelt having some Finnish ancestors. The source of that statement is an unfinished manuscript, a portion of which I was given a digital copy to edit. Also mentioned in that portion is Gus Hall, who was a Finnish-American. I've requested a contact in Finland to see what he can find out about Roosevelt's ancestry.

wasn't going to say anything, probably should just be quiet as the above poster stated...you know, just shut up and never voice your opinion..sort of like in the Stalinist regime, or Nazi Germany...speak up and get cut down...maybe thrown in prison, shot....becasue your beliefs, your politics didn't agree with the government's. Or maybe get the **** kicked out of you because you voice a dissenting opinion.

Anyway, what a bunch of hypocrits. from both sides of the aisle. All I hear from you guys is cutting down "liberals". cutting down "liberal media". cutting down cutting down. cutting down republicans...the religious right.

Don't you realize both the democrats and republicans have been running this country for a very long time and that they are both responsible for where we are now? Both parties are controlled by the same interests...greed and the military industrial complex, imperialistic designs...in the national interest of the US. Throw some religious issues in there for support such as abortion, healthcare on the liberal side, and viola, instant support for more of the same.

Socialism.,..well you have it now...complete socializing of the financial system of the US...and wait until you see what comes out of the G7 meetings this weekend.

Governing by fear..terorism..the financial market..on and on. You guys are afraid of someone because he is Muslim? How about that aetheist? Maybe you're afraid of someone because they're Italian? You know, might be mafia. Or how about the kid with the spike hair and piercings over there...I'm sure he's some kind of drug addict, or even an anarchist. and that old , creepy looking guy over there..just kinda walking around...he looked at that 5 year old...he must be one of them perverts. There's a stranger mommy. I'm scared !!! There's a black guy over there...must be looking for someone to rob, or maybe take my car! give me a break!

The divide in the people of the US has never been greater than it is right now. divide and conquer. division among races, beliefs. Wasn't there something about everyone having a right to their beliefs and expressing them, and then something about compromise...talking and meeting each other..working out the problems? We can't even talk or discuss anything anymore without it turning into a war. Each side trying to silence the other. Its even come to physical threats now.
This country was formed from people from all over the world. Different races, different religions, no religion, different cultures. Isn't it time we start respecting each other? Isn't it time we start to try and understand each other? Compromise? We are all in this together, one way or another. We're all going to sink or swim, and I would rather stay on top.

Wake up and look into other avenues. Maybe the Green Party? Some other independent organization? Perhaps its time to start thinking outside the box..or is that time to wake up and bring back what America used to be? Sure, it wasn't all good years ago, but I think you have to know it was a heck of a lot better 40 years ago, when we had the spirit, the drive to do good, to accomplish something. We celebrated holidays for what they were..now its just a day off to go shopping, maybe have a party.
Some of those liberal ideas are not bad, and some of those conservative ideas are real good too. I think its time to look at both of them and start working these issues out. How about it?

OK, Dave, when are you going to run for public office espousing campaign promises that embrace your beliefs and opinions posted on this site? Maybe if as much effort into posting lengthy commentaries on this site went into some kind of political campaign, something good would happen.

Matt...I've thought about it, a lot.
I'm a bit shy in person, however, and have a fairly difficult time being in front of more than 5 or 10 people at a time...I stay away from crowds. I'm not into schmoozing even a little bit. Can't stand having to shake hands and meet all those people...just another smiling face espousing BS upon the masses. In a crowd I'm more than likely on the sidelines looking aloof, but just don't like to mingle. I'm way better off on the side of a river maybe doing a bit of fishing :)

Thus, I write stuff on the internet, write my senators and congress people, and things like that. I'm hoping the ideas are shared by someone with a dynamic, outgoing personality and that person can carry the banner forward.

Actually, if you look at the platform of the Green Party, maybe not so much the platform of their current candidates, McKinney/Clemente, as there are a couple of important points I don't agree with there, but you would see something closer to what I believe.

I'm a bit of a hippie minded person from the 60s...all that love and peace stuff, although I'm a realist as well. I really think its all in the middle..that's where we need to be, no radical right or left, and all will be just ok. Tolerance is key. Some common sense, which we all know isn't too common, get the family back together. I like the way Asians and others support the entire family..from the kids through grandma...its smart from a partical as well as economic sense. Part of the problem here in the US is that even families are split apart. We don't support each other. I've had people tell me I'm stupid for trying to help my kids instead of allowing them to fall flat on their face when they get themselves into trouble. Its the same attitude we see when a lot of people don't want to help out those in need...with no healthcare, no house, living on the streets, impoverished.

Its a pretty hypocritical standard when here we have the finanacial system crashing in upon itself, basically caused by years of BAD politics and laws, poor or deceptive monetary policies and loans....and guess what, they get bailed out by our government. Billions and billions of dollars that will more than likely cause problems for years. That same money could have been helping ease some of the problems we have with our citizens...plus the fact we're spending billions on war and "defense". I see trillions of dollars that we don't even have being spent...

and its not just the government. Individuals and families have the same attitude. Its maybe time to let the whole thing come crashing down...get it all back into reason. Sure, it will be really hard, tough, suffering, knashing of teeth, but maybe it would wake us all up and get us back into a reasonable life style...at least for awhile. I don't think we learn much from history.

and here we go into another lengthy commentary :)
Now I'm going for a walk into the woods and down by the lake, take a few pictures, and just mellow out :)

and what does any of my last 2 posts say about Sarah Palin? I think she needs to mellow out and quit being so vindictive. We're all Americans. We all have differences. Lets embrace them and go forward.

Matt Karhu (Matt_k):
"Also mentioned in that portion is Gus Hall, who was a Finnish-American."

At least I know of Gus Hall (a.k.a. Arvo Gustav Halberg) whom, as a Finn myself, I consider a major embarrassment!

I am also aware of Työmies (Amerikan Suomalainen).

This from Finnish Newspapers and Periodicals in Michigan:

---

Quote:

The Tyomies, one of the most most significant of the Finnish working-class papers in America, was begun in 1903 at Worcester, Massachusetts. In the following year, however, it was moved to Hancock and later to Superior, Wisconsin. One of the earliest torch bearers of Socialism, the paper (which in 1910 became a daily) was a very important force in the development of the immigrant labor movement. Ususally blessed with effective editorial leadership, the Tyomies attained a fairly respectable circulation: 1903, 700; 1908, 5500; 1910, 10,000; 1920, 15,896; and 1935, 11,121. At the time when the Tyomies was appearing in Hancock, its sponsors, the Finnish Socialist Federation, were also publishing a number of periodicals: Työväen Kalenteri (1905-); Koyhaliston Nuija (1906-); Soihtu (1905-); Sakenia (1907-); and a very interesting humor sheet, the widely-read Lapatossu (1909-).

---

FRNash,

I, too, am of Finnish heritage, but I'm not embarrassed by that part of Finnish-American history. If done today, yes, but one must consider the times. Finns, like many other non-WASP people were not welcomed to America by all. As the Irish, Italians, etc., they were looked upon as cheap, expendable labor. Many called Finns 'mongols' and wouldn't allow their children to play with Finnish kids. When people work difficult, dangerous jobs for long hours 6 days a week for low pay and with no letup, and are treated poorly socially, something has to give. The Irish had their Molly McGuires.....the Italians their Mafia....the Finns their labor unions. That part of the Finnish culture in America came from Finland by people that experienced similar treatment in Old Country. While I don't agree with their violent methods used years ago, I do understand why. Today would be an entirely different matter. One of the best books I've ever read...hands down....of the Finnish-American experience is 'History of the Finns in Michigan', by Armas Holmio. Originally written in Finnish and later translated by Ellen Ryynanen. While learning, understanding, and appreciating the struggle Finns had to overcome before assimilating into American society, there's only one word that comes to mind: Pride.

Heikki (Heikki):

I understand completely.

However, it was certainly an embarrassment back in my elementary school days during the Communist witch hunting era of the House Un-American Activities Committee and Sen. Joseph McCarthy! And to a lesser degree later, when Gus Hall was the Communist Party candidate for president, in 1972, 1976, 1980, and 1984!

… there's only one word that comes to mind: Pride.
That, and a generous dose of Sisu!

I very much appreciate the October 13 comments by Dave, FRNash, and Heikki; you enhance the pride I have in my Finnish heritage. You must be deep thinkers, and not prone to rash judgment as are too many citizens of the United States.

FRNash,
Yes, Hall was 'somethin' else' for sure. He would have fit in perfectly with today's far left. During his years as a prez candidate, he was so far under the radar screen he wasn't noticed by many (at least not by me in those years) but persisted with his radical ideas as did that Lyndon LaRouche fella, one I remember quite well. Right or wrong, I guess they all serve a function in the Great American Political Experiment. And yes, one cannot overlook the role of SISU in the Finnish character. ;-)

(Matt k)
As for myself, it may not be thinking deep, but rather too much. That's what my better half tells me. ;-)

Do any of you remember how anyone thought to be a communist sympathizer was black listed in the CC?
When I was in my early teens I remember my father pointing out guys who could not get a job at any of the CC mines because they were blacklisted. Many of these guys were not communists but attended some of the communist meetings in the CC out of curiosity to determine whether that philosophy had anything to offer. An old friend of mine once asked me when I was in the USAFSS if he dared to apply for a postal carrier job. He was afraid his name might have been written as an attendee of one of those meetings.
I told him that was old stuff, apply for the job. He got it. He was much older than me as he was a friend of my father's.

A little more information about my comment regarding F. D. Roosevelt possibly having some Finnish ancestors: His political pollster, who orchestrated his presidential elections, was a Finnish-American named Emil Hurja (1893-1953). F.D.R. must have known how intelligent and clever Finns were. This website often reflects such.

As senator McCain said: the people have spoken and they have spoken clearly.

Letterman"s apology to Palin's family is too little, too late.. His calling all stewardesses sluty. Defaming a group of women should carry the same penalty whether it's Don Imus or Dave Letterman. What was done to Imus should also be Letterman's fate...........

Now she has taken her little ball and went home.

it's a smart move on her part to get some cash to pay off her very large debt. Public appearances to get the cash flow going.
Plus she went fishing today for salmon. Can't get any better than that.

In the paper this morning was a Washington Post editorial, stating how close this country came to having a disaster like Sarah palin being one click away from the presidency as Vice-president. Well lets take a look at a real disaster, and he IS one click away from being President. Mr. 'foot in his mouth', Joe Biden. How comforting is that??

How comforting? Not in the least bit. With unemployment reaching near double digits and national debt out our ears that more than doubles what it was since last November and as time slips by it will be harder and harder to continue to beat the dead horse about how the last Administration left us that way. To think that there's even talk of a second stimulus package already.
I use to get told by my Dad when I would ask for a few bucks as a kid: "Gee Son, what do you think? Money grows on trees?"
I guess no one ever told the Obama people that! Jeez!....

I just want to make sure everyone is enjoying their HOPE and CHANGE!
As for Sarah? You bet!...What ever decides to do after leaving office...Fine by me...I'll follow her anytime giving up a spot as governor if she has other things going, I'll be one of her biggest fans....

The Liberal media handled Hillary and Caroline Kennedy with kid gloves compared to Sarah. They will for even look for the slightest chance to throw her under the bus at the drop of a hat.

Shows you where the Crowd follows and hoots for like MSLSD news and Huffington Post.

Not sure why you're slamming Obama.What is happened and happening isn't his mess. He got elected to clean it up. And it wasn't caused by Bush either. You have to go way farther back. its been policy since WW2 and actually prior to that. When did the Federal Reserve come into existence?

No president can clean up what is going on. The financial system is beyond cleaning up. Its a global banking problem, but its only a problem to us regular folks. The richocrats are all cuddled up in their sacks of our cash.

Obama is just furthering policy to give our money over to the fat cats. Its sucking out of our pockets, and now our children and grandchildren, probably our great grandchildren.

no one elected from either party, liberal or conservative, fence straddler, or anyone else, is going to clean this up.

By the way--how do you add hyperlinks? I've been trying with the formatting commands and just pasting the URL, but nothing is working. Keep getting a formatting error.

David Soumis (Davesou):
"… how do you add hyperlinks?"

Just use the \newurl{} formatting tag like so:
\newurl{URL,text}
Where URL is just what you expect, and text is any descriptive text you choose.

Example:
Writing this:

\newurl{https://www.pasty.com/,Pasty-dot-com}

yields a clickable link like this:

Pasty-dot-com

Where the URL is "hidden" and the descriptive text you supplied becomes the link.

thanks FR ....


hmmmm.. still no joy..I keep getting this error
Formatting Error
The formatting code newurl does not allow other formatting tags to be nested inside it.

I can't show the code cause it won;t allow me to post it with the error

David Soumis (Davesou):
Check your email (address as shown in your profile).

*****Not sure why you're slamming Obama.What is happened and happening isn't his mess. He got elected to clean it up. And it wasn't caused by Bush either. You have to go way farther back. its been policy since WW2 and actually prior to that.*****

I guess you're right David...You do have a good point there. The whole world is actually upside down and not just us.

Most elected officials are elected to clean up previous elected official's messes....but with that newly elected official comes different problems...

...and that new one has plans like no one others before and some of those plans are enough to send cold chills down your spine when you think of the direction that our country is being steered.

If Obama could just find a way to bring back the 3 trillion dollars lost here in revenue each year because of companies that went overseas there would be more jobs for Americans. I wonder what it would take to bring them back? Oh hey idea, maybe take away the reasons as to why they left to go there in the first place.

reason
1. workers here get paid too much
2. Costs to much to provide benefits to the workers
3. all the environmental rules cost too much.
4. taxes are too high
5. cost of maintaining a safe workplace are too high (OSHA rules).

so if we can take away all the things that make a workplace attractive to a worker and maintain a safe, clean envirnment, they will come back.

So political activists should be protesting in other nations in support of underpaid workers, poor or no environmental controls, too low (or no) taxes on industry, and unsafe workplaces. Nothing like a level playing field to even the score....

Back to the subject of Sarah Palin...what do most of you think of her now? In view of what she has done and said recently, I'm afraid the Republican Party misjudged her. Hopefully, she will drop out of sight. My correspondence (surveys, etc.)from the RNC indicates that Romney and Powell (whom moderate Republicans favor) are being considered as possible candidates for the office of president and vice president. What say you?

I think Palin will spur on the formation of a viable third party. There is nobody....I mean nobody....in the GOP that can fire-up the base as she can. Like her or not, she is what's needed. Not necessarily as presidential material, because she's still a diamond in the rough. The GOP has been mismanaged for some time now. She doesn't owe them anything. Based on the mismanagement of her during the last campaign and then the personal destruction tactics used by those nincompoops after they were beaten by an empty suit, why should she cozy up to them? In my view, she has more common sense in her little finger on how to revive our economy than those tired old politcos now feeding at the trough. I wouldn't underestimate the "Barracuda". She's not as dumb as was made out by the mainstream media and late night talk show hosts. My wish? Hopefully she can encourage Blue Dog Dems, Independents, and new-age Republicans to join forces and change Washington once and for all. That, in my estimation, is what her mission should be at this moment in time.

Well stated, Heikki. However, I agree with what Governor Ventura said last night on the Larry King TV show, that Palin is a quitter. I wonder if she has a hormonal problem like some of the women I knew when they were her age. They suffered with frustration and unfullfilled desires, etc., that often caused some out-of-character behavior.

Gov. Ventura? Larry King?? I certainly hang on every word that those two utter. Sometimes I just wonder........FJL

FJL, I don't hang on every word Ventura, King, or anyone else says, but it is easy to recognize the truth in what Ventura says when you consider all of what is known to be true about Palin. She couldn't win any kind of election now nor in the foreseeable future and the wise men of the Republican and Democrat parties know that.

Palin apparently plans to take advantage of her popularity and capitalize on it as much as possible. More power to her but she should stay out of "power politics"; she and her army are too small and they have no ammunition other than tired old "catch phrases" and smart sounding but vacuous expressions. She will never be like Maragaret Thatcher, Golda Meier and similar female government leaders.

I like Palin just like she is, cute, perky, and unpredictable. What fun she must be as a wife and lover!

"Governor Ventura said last night on the Larry King TV show, that Palin is a quitter."

A curious statement from Ventura, given that in 2002, he announced that he would not run for a second term as governor, and nearing the end of his term, he suggested that he might resign from office early to allow his lieutenant governor an opportunity to serve as governor (although he quickly retreated from the latter statement, saying he was just floating an idea).

Now where have we recently heard similar statements?

Palin doesn't have to be another Thatcher or Meir. We're not accustomed to having greatness in government. When's the last time we had a Churchill?

Let's face it, the only thing that counts anymore in our pop culture society is charisma and 'star power'. No need for substance.

Even though the Barracuda is still rough around the edges, she holds promise. Give the girl a break. Being governor of a low-populated state adds nothing to her resume, and time's a-wastin'. Ventura's comments must be dismissed. He's from the Land of Oz, where wrestlers are made governor, comedians made senator, and no telling what else. It must be the water in those 10,000 lakes.

And Palin IS cute, perky, and unpredictable, but she has a better understanding of real life issues than those beltway bandits that grew up getting meat from a plastic wrapper and milk from a jug. There's something to be said about people who grew up close to the soil.....and they're not all rubes as they're so often portrayed by the talking heads who never had dirt under their fingernails or field-dressed a moose. ;-)

**********Palin apparently plans to take advantage of her popularity and capitalize on it as much as possible. More power to her but she should stay out of "power politics"; she and her army are too small and they have no ammunition other than tired old "catch phrases" and smart sounding but vacuous expressions. She will never be like Maragaret Thatcher, Golda Meier and similar female government leaders.************


Well, Matt, I think I have to agree totally with what Heikki's last post said. There is something to be said for someone who's grown up with real life experiences that stem to self sufficiency...
Back when I said before the election that Sarah was a hunter, fisher, and a lifetime NRA member and that's good enough for me, I really meant it.

A fellow from the southside Chicago as President or even a Supreme Court Judge ( Sonia Sore-to-My-Rear ) from the Bronx...doesn't represent me or my personal views in the fullest extent.
Sarah P. may not be the best choice for leading the nation in many other ways but who truly is?

Hey, if a peanut farmer from Georgia....A Hollywood Actor.....A Texas oil man....A draft dodger, liar, and adulterer from Arkansas....A not so sharp Texas good ol' boy....and now a Hawaiian born ( if that's where he was truly born ) who was a community project coordinator from the depths of Southside Chicago CAN ALL BE PRESIDENT.....
...then why can't a country girl beauty queen from Idaho turned Alaskan hunter and fisherwoman turned Governor be President????

I can conclude that most of the authors of the comments that favor Palin going on to hold a national elected office with more responsibility than governor of Alaska have not studied politics to a significant depth. The Republican and Democrat party leaders (not their self-appointed apologists) know what it takes to be a real leader, especially after they nominate losing candidates. Palin portrays very good qualities as cited by Heikki but those qualities do not necessarily qualify her for more than what she is and has been in the political arena. She apparently has plans to be a guest on various talk shows, next week she is scheduled to be on the Bill Cunningham radio talk show in Cincinnati. She plans to be a speaker at political rallies, and when her book is published she will be doing book signings. According to the wise men of the Republican party, her political career as a Republican candidate for a national office is finished.

That's why methinks Palin will energize a viable 3rd party. In the GOP, she met the enemy, and it is they, and every self-acclaimed expert that couldn't manage a dogfight. Working as a base builder, she will have ample opportunity to prove herself on the national stage, which being guv of AK could not. In my opinion, 2012 is too early for her to make a run for POTUS. My goodness, she's only in her 40's, and recent experience with pols in their 40's has left many with a grim attitude toward our future. Frequent public exposure in a national forum designed for serious political discourse will expose any critical weaknesses. She may even run for the Senate against the daughter of the guy she beat for guv. I think that would also be a good move. Getting away from frivolous ethics complaints as AK guv was a smart move. Nothing serious has stuck so far, but the jackals were still circling for the kill. The practice of character assassination has never been worse. It was bad during Clinton's time, but he asked for it. Palin has done nothing but voice her opinions, and instead of her adversaries agreeing to disagree, they 'go for the jugular'. Fear must be a factor in their behavior, because if she didn't represent a threat to their power, she'd simply be ignored.

Anyone can be given the appearance of a dimwit. If the news media had trounced on every Obama gaffe to the extent given Palin, he would have been politically destroyed. Example: Early in the primaries, it became very evident he stepped on his tongue each time he had to field a question from the crowd. Solution? Teleprompters, and orchestrated town hall meetings. Even today, his press conferences are a show, as evidenced by Helen Thomas's criticism toward Robert Gibbs the other week. When a Dem is criticized by her, you KNOW it has reached the point of embarrassment among his supporters.

On the other hand, Palin is a natural public speaker. That was proven as her address at the GOP convention was thrown a curve ball when the teleprompter operator (sabotage, perhaps?) got it out of sync. She continued with her speech so flawlessly one could not tell she was ad-libbing. That, my friend, is talent.

She may have serious gaps in her knowledge. She may be in it for fame and fortune. She may be too young and inexperienced at this time. But so far, she has not been given as fair an opportunity as others to make herself completely known to the American public. Give her a chance. We may be pleasantly surprised. Besides, there ain't much else goin' on behind those doors leading to the once smoke-filled room.

*********I can conclude that most of the authors of the comments that favor Palin going on to hold a national elected office with more responsibility than governor of Alaska have not studied politics to a significant depth. The Republican and Democrat party leaders (not their self-appointed apologists) know what it takes to be a real leader, especially after they nominate losing candidates.*********



Sorry, I disagree with that statement,too...The reason is because on both sides, it wasn't a matter of who was the best and has real leadership qualities.
It didn't take a rocket scientist to realize that this last election was based on who got the most funding and had the most well to do people backing them.

Although McCain would have been good in terms of a Commander in Chief over our armed forces, he clearly wasn't the best choice as an overall candidate for domestic issues. He had a lot of well to do people on the Republican people and business people behind him. His biggest downfall and he even admitted it could cost him the election was his commitment to win in Iraq. It was exactly what the American people was tired of hearing out of G.W.

B.O. on the other hand, is a sorry excuse for Commander in Chief. He creates animosity just with his presence between him and the the ladies and gentlemen of our armed forces. They know that this is the guy that don't even give two hoots less about them.

They know that this is the guy who in a 2001 video interview sat there and said that the Constitution is "fundamentally flawed" and continues to be today...The same Constitution that many thousands of men and women have died for to keep us free to be proud Americans and free for many to live in America and act as stupid as they please....

They know that along with Dingy Harry Reid, Nancy "I-look-like-I-just-saw-a-ghost" Pelosi and others he supported cutting funding to troops in Iraq in order to stall the mission and snuff it out. I'm sure most soldiers know deep down in to even have to stand and salute this guy is absurd and only because they "have to" when he addresses them.

B.O. may be a step ahead of McCain when it came to domestic issues but with the way he spends money we don't have with reckless abandon and how he wants to ram-rod his policies through the House and Senate in desperation to get these flawed policies enacted, I'm not so sure he is better for that job.

Again, with the financial backing for a well run campaign...thanks to George Soros and Oprah...he got the job done to get elected. I disagree that he was clearly emerged as the best qualified leader from the Democrats from the very start....Star popularity prevailed...

Eddie Allen: Have you read the latest polls on Obama? Back to normal levels I see.
And, very high percentages of the population do not approve of his spending, govt control, and solutions to the health care issue.
I guess reality sets in finally.
A very personable man but doesn't seem to like to comment on specifics without his tele-prompter.
I am hoping we (Congress) has time to sort all this out.
On another topic----Warren Buffet-----Second time I have listened to his comments and I now realize that he doesn't know economics nor have much of a feel for the reality of life. He can say that he doesn't mind paying more taxes------he doesn't miss that money at all he has so much. There are a lot of other people at the lower end of the incomes facing higher taxes that have worked very hard to get to their present state. They do not
feel the same way Buffet does.
sure got off the topic of Palin, didn't I?
sorry.

Off the topic of Palin, Tom makes a point worth commenting on, i.e., "lot of other people at the lower end of the incomes facing higher taxes...".

I and most of my friends are financially independent and we usually don't mind paying higher taxes if we get something in return, such as improvements in the country's infrastructure that will benefit everyone who is a citizen of this country (which then benefits us). There is much more to comment on in this regard, perhaps someone will start thread on this subject.

Why don't you start a new thread, Matt?

Newsmax Poll Shows Strong Support for Sarah Palin in 2012

An Internet poll sponsored by Newsmax.com reveals that nearly 4 out of 5 respondents would support Sarah Palin as the Republican nominee for president in 2012.

A slightly larger majority believe the then-Alaska governor helped John McCain in the 2008 presidential race — while only 31 percent think McCain did a good job running for president.

The poll drew more than 600,000 responses, and Newsmax will provide the results to major media and share them with radio talk-show hosts across the country.

Here are the poll questions and results:

1) What is your opinion of Sarah Palin? Favorable: 83 percent Unfavorable: 17 percent

2) Do you believe Sarah Palin as a running mate helped or hurt John McCain? Helped: 80 percent Hurt: 20 percent

3) In the election between McCain-Palin and Obama-Biden, who did you vote for? McCain-Palin: 81 percent Obama-Biden: 16 percent
Other: 3 percent

4) Would you support Sarah Palin as the Republican nominee for president in 2012? Yes: 78 percent No: 22 percent

5) Do you believe McCain did a good job running for president? Good Job: 31 percent Bad Job: 69 percent

6) Do you believe Barack Obama "bought" the White House by outspending McCain? Yes: 72 percent No: 28 percent

Whether Palin is the nominee in 2012 or not I definitely won't vote for B.O.....I've said it before: I'd rather vote for an unorganized intolerant dysfunctional right wing stooge Republican party anyday than a functional deviant atheist left wing zealot Democrat party!

Eddie, you said so much in so less words then any other post on here.I belive your post will open up many a mind down the road!

How would U.S. citizens know for whom to vote in important national elections if opinion polls were discontinued? Would they do some research and learn the facts necessary to cast an intelligent vote? Would they continue to blindly follow the misleading advice of angry talk-show apologists for the major political parties? Perhaps enough is currently being learned about candidates for national offices that previously was cleverly kept from being made public that would have changed the outcome of many national elections. Think about it, America!

"Think"? Now that's a foreign concept. Trouble is, with our vast media outlets hammering away 24/7, captive audiences in various social settings, pop culture influences, and historical revision, there is an unacceptable number of folks taught 'what' to think rather than 'how' to think. Perhaps some of the latest 'teachable moments' will serve as the best teacher.....experience. An expensive way to go, but what the heck, what's a few trillion here and a few trillion there? It's only money, eh? ;-)

yep...
its really too bad the Bush administration didn't continue on where Clinton left it, in the black.

also, if someone would have stepped up a long time ago and fixed the crap people were worried about 20 years ago, or more, we wouldn't be in this mess now.

John Wayne mentallity, selfishness, and greed.
always have to have the BIG truck..sure can't be caught looking like a woos driving a small little compact, can we. (I drive an old Suburban, btw .. 1994). Economically its good for me..no payments, few repairs..it just runs.:)
but we all need to start looking out for everybody, not just ourselves.

I don't know if that refers to the average American loving being fat and happy and materialistic or what...
Like you mentioned...a lot of people are greedy and selfish...It is this overall greed and selfishness that has gotten this country into a big portion of the position that it is in. From the top of the richest to even down to the poorest, all have been affected one way or another to a degree...
From the Bernie Madoffs all the way down to the petty thief...From the high roller of excess to the poorest who like a champagne taste on a beer budget...it's all the same...

More faith in God and a better understanding of his desires for us all has helped me overcome many things but we all still have hang ups.

Thinking of others and looking out for others is what shapes us a lot.

What you refer to as greed most economists call self-interest. Adam Smith first observed that self-interest as the driving force for economic growth. And growth in the areas of consumer satisfaction.
And while there is greed it is not as prevalent as most people believe.

Well stated, Tom. Self-interest when applied within budget constraints contributes to economic stability.

There are two cases (at least) of greed that was a benefit to US consumers. One was Rockefeller's monopoly on oil products and the other was Vanderbilt's monopoly on ferry boats along the east coast north to Canada. He also had large ships that crossed the Atlantic Ocean.
In both cases the men got filthy rich but the consumer benefited because the price of their products/services became very cheap and ordinary folks could afford them.
Kerosene and other oils became very cheap.
However, the Sherman Anti-trust Act of 1890 was passed to make monopoly illegal. The case was not brought by consumer complaints-----it was brought by the competitors who could not sell at such low prices.
The drawback was that consumers had but one choice of where/what to buy.
In the longer run it would have been bad for the economy had it lasted.

The level of maturity demonstrated in some of the comments in this thread is a clear indicator of why certain politicians are currently impotent.

Sarah Palin's book has just been released. Has anybody had a chance to read it?

Haven't purchased Palin's book yet. Have you read it?

Sara Palin was here in Grand Rapids MI. to open her book tour. We went to see her, what a spunky lady. There were about 3000 people there. We did buy her book and it is hard to believe the way she was treated, she ran up over half a million dollars in lawyer fees on different ethic charges against her which were all thrown out, but she still had to defend herself. And the way her downs son was treated. We have a bunch of "SICK" people in the United States. The media is unbelievable. Katie Couric is a "WITCH"

I'm about 2/3 the way through her book. A very interesting read. If Couric is a WITCH, then Martha Stewart is a -ITCH, given her response to a reporter when asked about Palin. My, what venom she spewed! If you haven't seen the video, just 'google' their names. It's on Utube.com. If Palin is such an airhead, what is there to be afraid?? You're right, Eugene, a lot of sick people out there. Piling on a woman who hasn't even thrown her bonnet in the ring yet. Tsk...tsk...tsk.

Lynn Vincent
job title: ghost writer

Lynn Vincent
job title: ghost writer

just sayin

Yes, Davesou, I had heard that on some talk show before her book was released, and had that in mind while reading. However, what I've read so far is genuine Palin....expressions, thought processes, experiences, etc. This is based on my observations of her during interviews and writings by others. I see nothing 'hoity-toity' in the book, so my guess is she likely punched out a rough draft and the ghost writer took it from there, smoothed it out, structured, and packaged it. I think a high percentage of public figures use ghost writers. They can get the finished product on the market much quicker that way while still relevant to the times. I read somewhere Hillary Clinton's ghost writer worked for seven months putting "It Takes A Village" together. I suppose it matters little if a book is written not as a documentary, but rather a recall of ones experiences, the use of a ghost writer doesn't make it disingenuous. Now, if she authored a book on quantum physics, that would be another matter. lol. Happy Thanksgiving to you and yours....