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Eight years ago on the Pasty Cam: 02/07/99^{Printed on Recycled Internet}

The Pasty Cam visited Michigan Tech's Winter Carnival nine years ago. Tonight is the all-nighter -- the last night of construction on the statues. This night has a carnival atmosphere on the Tech campus, with student groups selling food and warm beverages and hundreds of people out to watch the final push for statue completion.

Happy Hump Day!

Good Morning

Good morning! It's warming up down here in Mount Clemens - a temp of about 6 this morning.

Good Morning! We are getting a warmup here in mid-Michigan. It's -2 !

It sounds like Joanie was right yesterday about Illinois drivers on snow. I found this in the Chicago Trib online this morning:
..."Chicagoans sank a little deeper into misery Tuesday as"..."snow turned roads into demolition derbies or parking lots"

At least when Michigan has multi-car pileups & what might be termed demolition derbies, there are white-out or near white-out conditions. :-)

Good Morning! Nice sunrise over Bay De Noc this morning. It might be cold..but its a great place to be when it is cold.....

A good snowy and cold morning to all!

Yep, Marianne, I'd like to see some of these Illinois drivers in the snow belt states! They need to drive through the Lake Superior squalls for snow-driving lessons. I consider it rough-going when you can't see a thing.

Where is David H.? Is he hibernating? Maybe Barbie traded him in for a newer model that

Forgot the last line to David H., a newer model that is more conservative on the GAS!

Behave

Morning everyone....

I just received an email from a good yooper friend living in Nevada now. What she sent me is truely incredible!! It is not one, but two albino moose that were photographed near Marinesco I assume along US 2. I'm still checking into the validity of the photos, but they look good....

I aplogize if it's are a little large, but I thought everyone would like to see an albino moose in Michigan!! I have more photos if you would like to see the entire set; just shoot me an email and I'll send them out......

sorry guys, I have to fix the size first :P

Ok, this one should work. If anyone wants to see the rest, shoot me an email....



OK, these ARE real pictures, but the location is really Urban Legend. They've been reported to have been seen "all across North America, from British Columbia to the Maritime provinces in Canada, and from Michigan to Maine in the U.S. The pictures date from mid-2006 and were snapped in either Newfoundland or New Brunswick", according to www.snopes.com. Click on the previous link to read more about it.

Gee Capt. Paul, good thing we didn't see 'em down here. You know, put in the right spot they could be part of the Tech ice show tonight!

Capt. Paul: You are a little late on this! We all discussed it and saw the pictures on here a couple weeks or more ago!

Wishing you all a Good Day from K-Town where it is Sunny and the temp is 43.
My friend Russ sent me the same thing about the moose some weeks back with the same info as above.
Don't miss me to much,as I will be absent most of this month and into the next.The Mansion will be ready for us to move into in 3 weeks.So have alot we got to deal with as it is getting down to the wire.Been here in Corryton,Union County over for 4 years which is a great location,going to miss it.Now 22 miles to the west in Anderson County up on the hill will be our new home for the rest of our natural life.I have dial up so must keep phone line open for business more often from 9 to 5 but will get my pasty fix as much as I can.

I hate to break it to you all, But even some Michiganders have problems driving in the snow.
Especially the first of the season. When I lived back there you would see the people in the big 4X4 SUV's driving on fresh snow just like it was dry pavement. For the most part the vehicles that I would see stuck in the ditch or median along I-75 on these morning would be those SUV's.
Stay Warm!

Poor Capt. Paul! It's not his "fault", he was probably in a sandstorm that particular day.

I haven't seen the White Moose picts, Capt Paul. Thanks for sharing them.

That's interesting, Kelly. Around here, the cars that usually go in the ditches in the snow are small cars, driven by teenagers, if you have to generalize.

I always laugh when I see the big trucks and SUVs in the ditch. Serves them right. They think just because they have those big trucks and all that testosterone they can fly by everyone else. The snow and ice are great equalizers. Four wheel drive means nothing to ice. Pride goeth before the fall.

Oh well, no ones perfect!!! ;-) That's why I said I was checking into the validity, because even I wasn't sure......

4WD allows one to "get stuck better".

Cindy, you said it so exact! 4 wheel drive is not the answer for ice. 4 wheel drive gets the hay out to our horses in the snow for me, or pulling our snowmobile trailer on a freshly covered snowy parking lot, but not for ice driving. My husband just loves how the SUV/4wheel vehicles owners come in so humbled for estimates, especially the ones who drive in following the flatbed hauling their crumpled SUV/4 wheel vehicles in to be repaired. Business is booming right now for his shop

Capt. Paul....glad you posted.I Have never seen these before..send me the rest. Helps me take my mind off hernia surgery..doctor told me it should be no big deal...week later i am still in a lot pain.....big time pain....send the pics.

Four wheel drive means a lot, to get you started on ice or deep snow. BUT, 4WD won't help you stop, even little bit, and that's what a lot of people don't understand. Also, you aren't supposed to go over 45 mph with 4WD, unless you want to ruin an expensive transmission, so they really don't help you on a highway, unless you are going slow & all of the traffic is going slow.

We live on a very slight hill, a hill that you don't even realize is a hill at all, unless you are riding a bike, or unless there is ice or wet snow on it. Then, you can't even get up the hill, from a dead stop, unless you have four wheel drive, as we have learned over the years, from backing out of our driveway, there are times that 2-wd cars MUST go down the hill, as they won't make it up the hill. It's not too bad--you just have to go out of your way a little bit at once in a while. EXCEPT, one night, during or just after a big snow storm, our neighbor, kitty-corner across the street, was just getting home from having been out of town on business very late one night. He couldn't make it up the hill in his rental car, so he parked his rental car in our driveway, blocking our driveway, until we could help him out & up the hill to his house the next morning. :-)

I also see more SUV's in the ditch. I personally like having my smaller front wheel drive cars for this weather. I have only been stuck twice and it was because of simple stupidity, tried to take my cavalier through a 3' packed bank to get off I-94. The tow truck driver was curious how I got all 4 wheels off the ground. The other time I dug myself out in the driveway over a different 3' bank. Valuable lessons learned on both. Hit the bank straight on!

Janie you are right about 4WD: all-wheel drive is best on ice and slick snow. I love my Subaru, but take it slow anyway. There's no where I want to get to all that fast to risk an accident. I really appreciate having low testosterone levels. :) Rowdy you are right: 4-wheel drive means you get stuck farther off the plowed roads, and the towing fee's higher. Four-wheel drive *doesn't* mean never having to say you're sorry.

Capt. Paul, I got that same very email and it says they were seen near Marenisco, Mi. So this email has really travled all over the World Wide Web!

Brooke -- in deep snow drop it in the lowest gear (even in an automatic) and don't stop moving but don't gun it, take it easy. You can put it back in Drive on the fly when you get out of the deep stuff. Also, put it in neutral when you need to stop on slippery stuff or when you start sliding around a corner, even if you have anti-lock brakes. It works better than the anti-lock brakes in my experience. Stay safe and uncrumpled.

You have that right about 4WD vehicles, mistakenly believing they can drive on ice without spinning out. All 4WD means folks, is that all four tires have power...that's it.
I took the interstate into Mokena yesterday...and while I stayed in the right lane/truck lane with my 4WD truck doing about 40mph the entire way, I couldn't believe the people in cars and 4WD vehicles in the left lane doing more than 60 mph. It was white knuckle driving for me, the entire way, just waiting for one of those vehicles in the left lane to spin out of control.
Coming back from Mokena, I took the snow-packed back roads...and although it took me three hours to get home, it was a much more pleasurable driving experience than the expressway.
Found out later from my daughter that they had to close down parts of I-65 because they had a 12 car pile up...and the expressways in and around Chicago were also a mess with accidents...all the result of people driving too darn fast in the snowy conditions.

You know what's funny about driving in the snow? That's when you really learn how to swear.

Cindy, I agree with you about the antilock brakes. I have noticed I am halfway through the intersection when relying on them to stop, but without antilock brakes and I am pumping brakes I stop where I want most of the time. Sometimes miss my old stickshift in this weather.

Paul, I sure hope you feel better soon! It's no fun to be in pain. Hmm, wonder if your doctor ever had hernia surgery?

You don't need the stickshift, you can put an automatic in neutral while you're driving for the same effect as pushing in the clutch.

Sur5er, I'm glad that you had a safe trip yesterday, albeit white-knuckled! I was thinking about you after your message yesterday morning, I looked at the weather radar & saw your snow mess.

Joanie, you are right about really learning to swear if you have to drive in deep snow! When my oldest son was a tiny baby (winter of 1985), I was on the way home one day from work. I got stuck in a snow drift on an unplowed sort of major road, here in town, that I had to take to get home (and the others were worse, believe me). It was so deep that it was up to the floorboard of my station wagon. I had to get out & take my snow shovel (yes, I try keep one in my vehicle, especially since that episode) from my car & shovel the snow out from around the left rear wheel & the floorboard, so I could even get home that day. (Had it been with today's cars, it would have been the left front wheel, but it still would have happened.) Fortunately, I was only about a mile from home, and I made it the rest of the way without major incident.

Being prepared helps a lot!

Paul Rose--best wishes for a speedy recovery!

Paul you have my sympathy, pain is bad regardless what the doctor says. Make sure you do the exercise that they give you. Makes the healing go faster.

Thanks Marianne. I have no problem driving in snow...it's just the other drivers on the road that scare me ;) Would much rather be out on a country road in a snow storm than on the expressway with people zipping around going too fast.
Went down some really backwoods roads yesterday where I was the only vehicle on the road...and it was actually peaceful and I got to enjoy how beautiful the snow was.
I was on the phone last night with Cotton and I told her that I never really traveled the expressways that much when I lived in Michigan...so snow didn't really bother me traveling the backroads...just the white-outs and black ice. The concept of expressway driving at great rates of speed during a snow storm is completely lost on this Michigan country pumpkin ;)
I kept thinking the entire time I was on the expressway yesterday: 'next winter at this time, I'll be in da UP and won't have to worry about driving in snowy conditions on the expressway' :)

Surf5r, I agree with you on preferring to take the back country roads. I will add one exception for me, though. I prefer to stay off of those roads that have DEEP ditches on the sides, like some of those in Saginaw County (Mich) have, particularly if there is ice or blowing & drifting snow, that is made worse by the winds roaring across the open farm fields. In those cases, you can't always be sure where the road is & where the deep ditches are, regardless of how fast you are driving. Then, I will make an exception, reluctantly, & take the interstate. Otherwise, I will almost always take the back roads. I have found that there is much less blowing & drifting in areas that have trees by the roads to block some of the wind. :-)

4 wheel drive can be used at any speed you're crazy enough to take it to without hurting the mechanism in any way.

For those of you who are lucky enough to be up in Copper Country now, it looks like you will have good weather for a Winter Carnival this week! I don't know how many of you go watch the all-nighters or go to see the finished snow & ice sculptures, but the pictures that I have seen of past ones are really cool looking. Have fun & enjoy!

Sur5er, that's what I like best about the UP - - - no expressways, no traffic jams, heck, no traffic period! Houghton is enough traffic for me!
Another thing about driving in the snow; stay far away from any vehicle that has extensive body damage!

Umm-Joanie, have you driven on US-2 across the UP much in recent years? That can get backed up a fair amount & even have some minor traffic jams, particularly around some weekends. :-)

Hope you get well soon Paul A Rose,I know it's easy for me to say never having that,but I hear it's best to do as Mikie said and exercise.And the other Paul beat me to what he said.And the way some of the things said about SUV's makes one think they didn't have a driver.I know at times the nut behind the wheel comes loose, but mine never has.I drove our SUV yesterday for the first time in months,had a hard time getting used to it after being in my Nascar Taurus that hugs the road.

David H--I agree with you. You do have to drive 4WD SUV's differently from regular cars. My son has trouble making the adjustment from our Buick to the SUV. And, as you so aptly said, some drivers drive like they have a few screws or nuts loose! But, it just takes learning how to properly drive the vehicle. Some people never quite learn that, and they should not be driving SUV's in the first place.

Wanna hear a story about car problems?


A lady was driving down the freeway, her car phone rang. Answering, she heard her husband's voice urgently warning her "Joanie I just heard on the news that there's a car going the wrong way on 280. Please be careful!"
"Heck," said Joanie "It's not just one car. It's hundreds of them!"

Marianne, we stay away from the northeast part of the UP. It's more peaceful on the northwest side! Don't get me wrong, we loved crossing the Big Mac and exploring the area and it was just beautiful but, the northwest part is "comfy cozy" and has "Old Mother Superior"!

Not "Generalizing" as it was put, just stating fact about some 4X4 drivers.
It doesn't matter what type of vehicle you are driving, if your not driving per road conditions your going to end up in a ditch or worse.
We see it all the time on the twisting foothill roads were we live, especially on wet pavement.

Joanie, coming from where we live in lower Michigan, it is a whole lot closer to go over the Big Mac, to get to the UP, rather than going south and going through Indiand, Illinois, & Wisconsin, around Lake Michigan. We get to see a whole lot of Lake Superior, usually beginning at Marquette, unless we take the Seney route. :-) You are a significantly closer to Houghton & Copper Harbor, as it is, than we are, amazingly, and that's without adding the extra mileage to circle Lake Michigan. :-)

I love the far western part of the UP, including Lake of the Clouds, Silver City, the water falls along the Black River (I think it is), etc. It was really interesting talking to the people in Silver City & how they have to handle their garbage in the summer, to keep the bears out. :-)

A question for Gonna Be a Yooper---------when is this going to happen???

Tom, not soon enough! We'll be UP there for good in approximately 2 years, 6 months, 3 weeks, 2 days, 14 hours, 8 minutes and 30 seconds. Make that 20 seconds.

Gonna be a Yooper (Joanie):
Not that you're counting, eh?

Speaking of no traffic, when I was a teen I used to walk up to the nearest intersection and just sit on the road. Never had to move for a car. I did see a fox one time though. I'm sure it was equally surprised to see me.

Joanie- I wish I could do that, I keep an eye on the want ads up there but no luck. I may have to wait until I retire, in that case close to 30 years. That is too long! A couple weeks in the summer just doesn't do it!

Yep Brooke, you're absolutely right! A couple weeks and you're finally gettin' in the relaxed Yooper mode and then it's time to head home. How sad that jobs are few and far between UP there. We're going to retire UP there and live happily, ever, after. You should at least think about buying some land so you have something to look forward to!

All you Yooper wannabees might want to check out TV 6's web site. They have a campaign called "Invest in the U.P". They are doing a job listing by county.

Thanks Laurie, will do, meanwhile check this out;

Two Yoopers head for the Motor City. When they get across the bridge they see a sign that reads "DETROIT LEFT." So they turn around and go home.

Please don't take this personal if you have a problem with this joke just email me, eh?

at the very least, I'm getting buried up there after I croak...

I attended the state police winter driving skid school in St. Cloud Minneesowta a couple years ago...now that was a blast...and guess what..the 4 wheelers didn't fair any better on the ice pad than the 2 wheel drive cars. You had to go 65mph and jam the brakes....wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee !!!
Quite an experience.

Joanie, I really liked that joke about Detroit left.

Deb, you must be the only one! At least it didn't get deleted! Well, not yet, time will tell, eh? Thanks Deb, positive responses really make me happy!

Laurie, what is TV 6's website called? It used to be WLUC but don't know what it is anymore.

The problem on the Illinois expressways wasn't so much the snow, but the temperature. Everything they put on the roads, salt and potassium chloride melted the snow, but then froze again almost as soon as they put it down. Thus- black ice and major multi-car chain reaction pile-ups. It's so cold, there was nothing they could put on them that would clear them.

Channel 6's web site is www.wluctv6.com. There are lots of neat links to check out.

Did anyone see Buck Lavasiere this past Monday night on Channel 6 Marquette? He was suppose to have something on the program about the white moose pictures as to wheather they were real or altered and I forgot to watch the program.

If they have ice, & it is too cold for the road salts to work, then they can put down sand, using the old mechanical approach to roughen the surface, instead of a chemical approach to lower the melting point of the ice. :-)

One technical thing to add to todays boasting of 4WD trucks, Odds are very good that unless you ordered your truck with locking or limited slip rear end only one of your back tires drive the truck. And short of a full blown rock crawler the only truck I know that has a locker on the front axle is a Jeep Rubicon and it is a air locker that should only be used if you NEED it going straight with the front wheels, you can not turn the wheels with the front end locked. So in short a 4WD truck is actually a 2WD truck with one front and one rear tire moving the truck. The only exception would be a truck with a rear locker or limited slip that will drive both back tires and then you normally will hear a clunk in the back going around turns as the wheels unlock to go different speeds around a corner so that would be a 3WD truck but who has ever seen a truck with a 3WD sticker on it?

I did order my 1994 - 4WD GMC Suburban with locking differential, and including a plug, among other things. My brother, who lived in Montana at the time, told me it was a good idea to order the locking differential. And, that is the vehicle that I still drive today. :-)

How about the difference between AWD and 4WD? Or rather, since I'm not sure about terminology, between part-time and full-time all wheel drive? By the way, a Mercedes G has a locking front diff, too, but perhaps Steve was thinking of commonly affordable vehicles. On his suggestion, however, odds are all cars are only driven by just one wheel, which is hardly the case, or we'd notice. It is the case when both wheels of the drive axle experience very different grip, like one on pavement, one on black ice. Then it could happen that all power is distributed to the wheel still spinning, most likely the one on the ice.

The maior and most dangerous misunderstanding about wether 4wd or AWD is that many people think great, now we have 4wd-braking - not considering that this has been around in every car and truck since the 20's, and they're not getting any improvement in brake distance. Rather the opposite, due to added weight.

Speaking of braking, ABS is not primarily about reduced braking distances, it's about vehicle control, enabling a sane driver to change direction even under hard braking by allowing just about enough wheelspin to keep the vehicle maneuverable. Works on black ice, too, though the turning circle might be somewhat wide ... :) When driving on surfaces that tend to pile up in front of the (locked) wheels while braking, pumping, or even flat out locking the wheels provides shorter braking distances than an ABS. Due to normal drivers inability to balance braking power just short of locking completely, usually under all other circumstances ABS as a sideeffect provides less braking distance. All this has to be taken into account, when driving an ABS-equipped vehicle.

The key words being- They can put down sand. Not they did put down sand.

Danbury you are correct in saying that most cars drive with only one tire, the differential allows the tires to turn at a different speeds for going around a corner. ( inside tire turns slower and the outside faster ) All most all cars have a OPEN diff driving only one tire the power can shift side to side but only one tire at a time. If you ever had a car go into deep mud or snow you would notice that the tire that can free spin will be the drive tire. The diff assumes that the tire is moving the car because of the low resistance so it sends power to that tire. Back in the sixties it was all the rage with muscle cars to get a limited slip or locker so both tires would go up in smoke during a burn out, how many times today do you see just one black line on the road when the teens get mom or dads car out for a spin.

AWD cars and trucks get that term because you can leave them AWD or 2 wheel drive on dry pavement with out doing any damage to the drive train. The way they can stay in AWD on hard dry ground is they use fluid coupling in the drive train just like a automatic trans. You can only generate so much torque with the fluid before it slips, the slipping will not harm the metal drive train parts but will generate a lot of heat. The higher end SUV’s and cars that say they have a front locker is true to some extent, it will drive both front and back tires but the coupling method is a fluid transfer case. Just like a regular AWD car if the torque load gets to high the fluid link will slip to relieve strain on the drive train parts so it can leave you stranded. You also are correct that the 4WD trucks I was talking about where the true 4WD heavy duty type. The locking method used is a metal to hard clutch or spring loaded teeth that will unload to allow the tires to turn a different speed and then relock to drive both tires . In this case you should never run in 4WD on dry pavement for a long period of time and NEVER run it in 4WD low on hard pavement, there is so much torque from the low gearing that one tight turn in 4 low on solid ground can snap a solid metal axle in two at the same time there is so much torque that you can pull a full size truck with or without a trailer up a very steep loose or soft hill with out any trouble.