March

Keweenaw Issues: Anonymous Ranting: 2001: March
An archive of previous comments

By Elmer G Fudd-Jetson on Saturday, March 31, 2001 - 09:10 am:

Stardate: November 15th, 2020.
The crew of the Keweenaw relax at home looking at pictures posted on the Internet, sending e-mail to friends and family around the world, while outside the first snows of the year fall on ground that is free of human foot-prints.

While at border crossings with Canada, officials are counting the annual flight of sportsmen, who journey to Canada for deer hunting, deer camp (held in hotel rooms), and government-guided trips to the woods and fields where guides point out where hunters can walk and where they cannot walk. Paths are marked with orange strips tied to branches and are one-way, where hunters walk at their leisure from one point to another, where they are assembled and returned to deer camp (their hotel rooms). There, hunters enjoy meals that are provided in the restaurant and story-telling (in the story-telling section), and wake-up calls from the front desk. The guided year-2020 hunt gives new meaning to the word: drive.

Many sportsmen lament that they had not become involved more with the public access issue years earlier, that they had not taken an interest in creative zoning and development techniques, and they lament that they have to travel further and further north into Canada for their annual deer hunting. Old-timers are trying to adjust to this idea of drive. Others look at the situation more positively, since the situation requires that they pool their resources, and that this necessity has resulted in new friendships.
Others speak nostalgically of the day when they could take their sons and daughters almost anywhere in the Keweenaw for the deer season opener.

Border officials have noted a decline in years, of the numbers of hunters willing to make the journey north. Some credit the decline to the arcades that have opened, offering realistic virtual hunting experiences to those willing to recline on one of fifty beds (a typical arcade set-up) and "hunt" after a attendant adjusts the virtual goggles on each sportsman's eyes, though animal rights activists are calling for a ban on hunting arcades as it promotes aggression toward animals. Opinion on that, however, is divided, though camouflage clothing manufacturers, curious allies of PETA are waiting for a Supreme Court decision that is likely to affect their livelihoods.

Virtual rock-picking, virtual berry picking, and virtual sight-seeing arcades are likely to be unaffected by the pending Supreme Court decision.


By Shop till ya drop! on Saturday, March 31, 2001 - 07:08 am:

saddened,
wal-mart? you betcha. but they're going to pre-fab it so it will be ready soon. that way, when the gov't changes its current tune, and gives $300 back to all, airy-one in the Keweenaw will be locked inside the package until they have spent all their hard-earned bucks from uncle sammy.

who needs a muffler!


By Pail Face on Friday, March 30, 2001 - 10:36 pm:

Twenty years ago today, some delusional fame-seeker shot the Gipper(on my Dad's 58th birthday no less). 5 years ago today, the faint smear of Comet Hyakutake(first sighted January 30th by an amateur Japanese astronomer) soared over and beyond Polaris in the northern nightsky and began to fade from view after an eerie week long display.
Slobodan Milosevic, last of the East European communist tyrants, who engineered so much •••• for so many people in the 1990's, was apprehended today in Belgrade after police stormed his home.
The NCAA Final Four is about to begin here in the Twin Cities.
And then there are these freakin' auroras...
Please, don't anyone pinch me, this must be HEAVEN
Happy 78th, Pop!
Enjoy this weekend's Charge of the Light Brigade!
Here's a Copper Page just for you:

Copper Page

Your Snowbird Son,
Salty Dog


We skipped the light fandango
Turned cartwheels 'cross the floor
I was feelin' kind of sea-sick
The crowd called out for more
The room was humming harder
As the ceiling flew away...


procolharum.jpg

By saddened on Friday, March 30, 2001 - 07:49 pm:

- I see in the census report that Keweenaw county is growing in population.
- I see that a Walmart is being built outside of Copper Harbor.
- I see that the police were checking students for guns in local high schools.

I see the future and it scares me. Where are the leaders?


By BillyBob on Friday, March 30, 2001 - 06:35 pm:

I will speak no more forever.


By Timhy on Friday, March 30, 2001 - 02:59 pm:

The DNR is ten times more about politics then they are about protecting our natural resources. I wouldn't trust them to protect a peanut butter sandwich.


By Mother Goose on Friday, March 30, 2001 - 01:29 pm:

Did anyone happen to read the letter to the editor last night by Mr. Floriani? He spoke about the double standards in Keweenaw. •••• what about the double standards set forth by the state and the DNR? Example: Richard Delene was crucified for improving a wetland that he owned. The owners of FAKE LAKE ESTATES DESTROYED A WETLAND.
Richard Delene where are you?


By very sick of socialists on Friday, March 30, 2001 - 09:32 am:

Ohh BillyBob
How sick and twisted a liberal socialist mind can be. Go back and read your post. As for government jobs, I don't have one, I work for a living and make an honest dollar.
As I said, the socialist attitude you and others have towards MY property and others make me sick. You don't seem to get it that your rhetoric and attitude will eventually give all of our rights and personal ownership to the government for the "good of the people" or as you would like "for the good of your mother earth". This means when you and I are gone, our children and grandchildren will live under tyranny. And I pray that my ethnic group or religious group is not the one blamed for it. Because I think history shows what a tyrannical and anarchist government (which is run by people like yourself) does to minorities and unpopular ethnicities.

But you go ahead and keep thinking the way you think. Now you know where I come from.

"DON'T TREAD ON ME"


By moi on Friday, March 30, 2001 - 08:41 am:

Billybob,
Timber harvesting nowadays is a far cry from destroying. It's managed very well. Most pieces are selectively cut, either by species or size, to facilitate future growth. Like I said, look at national parks where they're not managed, and compare. Ours are much more beautiful. We live here because we, too, love it. We just aren't against any use of the resources that were given us to MANAGE WISELY.


By Roaring Out Like a Lion Upon April Fools on Thursday, March 29, 2001 - 10:29 pm:

29 March 2001
MAJOR CLASS X1.7 SOLAR PROTON FLARE ALERT
A major class X1.7/1N solar proton flare was observed erupting from the
mammoth naked-eye sunspot group identified as Region 9393 at 10:15 UTC (5:15
am EST) on 29 March. This event, although not tremendously large in spatial
size, was very bright in x-rays. Increasing energetic proton densities at
greater than 50 MeV (million electron volts) from the event began to be
observed shortly after 11:00 UTC (6:00 am EST). Protons are expected to
continue gradually increasing in density throughout the rest of the UTC day.
There is a risk of proton densities becoming strong enough to begin causing
minor satellite anomalies (single event upsets, phantom commands, etc).

A fairly well defined Earth-directed full halo coronal mass ejection was
observed emanating from the Sun, beginning near 10:26 UTC in SOHO spacecraft
imagery. An accurate time of impact of this disturbance is not yet available.
However, it is a reasonable estimate to assume that the disturbance will
impact the Earth on 31 March or perhaps 01 April.

The impact of this latest coronal mass ejection should come on the heels
of the anticipated impact of an earlier coronal mass ejection (currently
expected to impact on 30 March). This series of events is likely to result in
a prolonged period of enhanced auroral storm activity during the 30 March to
01 or 02 April time frame. Observers interested in watching for auroral
activity should keep a close eye on the sky and conditions during this time.
An addendum will likely be posted later today concerning this event.
However, for those who are interested in more real-time information, we
recommend you make use of one of the following resources for current
information:


http://www.spacew.com/aurora
http://www.spacew.com/aurora/forum.html


By BillyBob on Thursday, March 29, 2001 - 07:24 pm:

Socialism?! Just the opposite moi boy. What I'm talking about is private ownership. As far as you ........let's take a look. The biggest employer in the U.P is the State of Michigan Department of Corrections. Followed by all the local and state road commissions, state and federal employees, county level support for the elderly, etc. Last, but not least are the federal and state unemployment, fod stamp, free medical stuff. Don't talk to me about socialism. Maybe you had better look up the term in the dictionary.Which way do you want it? What I'm talking about is protecting the land from those who would destroy it.......nothing more, nothing less. I would think that each and every one would support this notion. Without the beauty and natural wonder of the Keweenaw, what do you have? Nothing.


By sick of socialists on Thursday, March 29, 2001 - 06:34 pm:

Voice,
Just the freaks who want my neighbors and me to live in "governmant sustained and controlled" housing so they can enjoy my property.

"PROPERTY OWNERSHIP" comes from my grandfather who paid money for this land from another property owner. This means his sweat and blood. This ownership also comes from our veterans, founding fathers, and relatives who paid for our freedom with thier lives.

How sick they would be to hear people actually serious about running our country the way the people they fought ran thier countries. What did they die for, I thought it was freedom, not socialism.


By Voice from Clouds on Thursday, March 29, 2001 - 04:04 pm:

Hey Moi:
Here's a list of some other "freaks" to hunt down, hang up like some mythological pinata and pummel senseless while you're still having fun:

control freaks
power freaks
car freaks
Jesus freaks
gun freaks
conspiracy freaks
health freaks
ski freaks
privacy freaks
etc etc

Then, after you've dealt with all of them, get back to me cuz there's this really really bad guy living in a fiery cavern deep deep beneath Calumet who could use a major dose of your "tough love" regimen.


By moi on Thursday, March 29, 2001 - 02:34 pm:

BillyBob and his cronies could be "kind" to the animals whose population would have exploded with only nature freaks around. Maybe the animals wouldn't eat them, even though they're starving, if they love the Earth together. Their roads wouldn't be plowed, but they could snowshoe. They'll grow their own food, of course, because you can only snowshoe so far. These awful engines that we all use! And they'll all live in shelters made of dead trees- we wouldn't want to murder any living ones for lumber, now. They'll have a small community of these "homes", so the woods will look beautiful (although they won't- have you ever been to Yellowstone NP? It's full of dead or burned trees). They'll re-use all the existing, rotten buildings for fear of expanding. How fun! Only then will they realize that they need level-headed, forest-managing, forward-reaching, privacy-loving FREE Americans. Socialism has been tried, and is doomed, folks. (And these types say that our president is the one who looks to the future in a rear-view mirror!)


By siock of the socialists on Thursday, March 29, 2001 - 10:41 am:

Hey Billy Bob,
Hope your dream comes true. Would love to see how happy thier lives are up here until all of us inbred, ignorant, vermins are extinct. Or how safe they are.


By PC on Wednesday, March 28, 2001 - 11:04 pm:

The mother of Matthew Shepard spoke at Tech last night. We're to believe that her son was killed because he was homosexual, that it was a hate crime. I don't know all the facts of the case so I really don't know.

But I have read other information. For example,
McKinney, a 22 year old college student, who was sentenced to two consecutive life sentences for the murder of Matthew Shepard, had been the victim of a homosexual sexual abuse attack by a "male neighborhood bully" at the age of seven.

So maybe it tells why the "hate" exists?


By E pluribus unum on Wednesday, March 28, 2001 - 10:39 am:

What exactly is meant by property rights? And how does that relate to the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness? If one is born into the world, can we say that the individual has the right to live in the world? Is that a natural right? Where does property rights come from? Does one have the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness anywhere in the world? Except on someone's property? Hoo-yah


By nighling on Wednesday, March 28, 2001 - 08:52 am:

Right on Billy Bob.
As a Keweenaw resident I hope a whole bunch of tree huggers buy up all the remaining land. Even though I may not be able to use it, the best thing that could happen is conserving this beautiful land we call home.


By moi on Wednesday, March 28, 2001 - 08:35 am:

BillyBob, go to bed.


By Jack Pine on Wednesday, March 28, 2001 - 08:34 am:

Right on Former Yooper and Billy Bob. All summer long the ski lifts were lying in the parking lot while they cut, welded and modified the lifts to fit this hill. What better time to have them inspected then in the middle of a snow storm. They should have had the welding x-rayed, verifing it was done right. Breakwinds really doesn't care much for public safety, they just wanted to get the hill going to make a point.

Paul and Walt don't care who owns the land, they just think everyone should be able to trespass on it as they choose. Walt lives in Houghton County and he wants Keweenaw County kept open so he can use it as his own. He doesn't want to own anything, he just wants free use of the Keweenaw.
Walt's been breathing in too much of that stamp sand dust.


By Spacy Angelina on Tuesday, March 27, 2001 - 09:10 pm:

Naked Eye Sunspot Alert
A significant increase in solar activity has been observed during the
last week following almost 3 months of very quiet activity. The sun appears
to be in a state of energetic sunspot growth. This is evidenced by the
appearance of a large sunspot group that recently rotated around the eastern
solar limb. This sunspot group, which is now visible to the PROTECTED naked
eye, is the largest and most complex sunspot group we have observed in many
months.
Known as NOAA Region number 9393, this sunspot group is magnetically
complex and large enough to be the source of very energetic solar activity
during the next week and a half as it rotates across the visible face of the
Sun. Major class M and X x-ray flares are possible from this spot complex.
Although no major flares have yet been directly observed from this region,
the appearance of additional spots near this spot complex may provide the
necessary impetus for larger-scale solar flares to begin erupting. Other
sunspot groups visible are also capable of producing potentially energetic
levels of solar of activity.
Prospects are improving for people anxious to observe auroral activity.
The odds are improving for an Earth-directed impact of a coronal mass
ejection should one of the sunspot complexes on the Sun produce energetic
activity. Aurora watchers are encouraged to keep a close eye on the sky
during the next week to 10 days. Good discussions of possible activity and
recently observed activity from seasoned aurora photographers can be found
at: http://www.spacew.com/aurora/forum.html


By BillyBob on Tuesday, March 27, 2001 - 08:21 pm:

I have always believed that the beauty and splendor of the Keweenaw is due solely to it's ability to replenish itself faster that the average Uper's ability to screw it up. You jokers have never seen a tree that you woudn't like to cut down. What you've got left can be considered a small miracle. The same justifications you use to support the "hill" could be used to support a nuclear waste facility.......good for business, jobs, something for the kids to do at night as they glow in the dark. Some of you think you've got the God given right to do whatever it takes to make a living and have "fun". You don't. The only hope for the area is for each and every one of you to get taxed off your land as more responsible folks, those who truly apreciate the Keweenaw, begin to buy it up.


By Fire one! Bogeys away on Tuesday, March 27, 2001 - 12:19 pm:

Why stop with the lifts? Why not inspect everything man-made in da area. Or maybe we only want to inspect when things fail, eh? Or...when we know they have failed........


By Former Yooper on Tuesday, March 27, 2001 - 11:53 am:

Could the lift parts been inspected before the lift was put up? I believe so.

Did the big bad referendum have a provision that the parts could not be inspected before the vote? I don't think so!

Can someone tell me why the parts were not inspected/replaced before being installed? Seems to me that it would be easier to inspect parts for wear when the tower was laying on its side on the ground (I went by the hill in July and viewed what I thought was a tower in the parking lot - at least it looked like the ones in the picture).

Once the lift was installed, then the parts could have been reinspected and verified that they worked like they were supposed too!

Sounds like somebody rushed. As for the state inspections, I have no idea how through it was. Was it cold and snowing when they were inspected? Probably. Did the inspect travel all the way up there from Lansing or where ever? definately. What has that got to do with anything? Most trolls in the lower 1/3 of the state don't see more than 25 - 50 inches of snow a year, and they don't like it...

Charles Buck: I would also like to read the reports...


By Rocking Robin on Monday, March 26, 2001 - 09:01 pm:

Place the blame.
Give us all a break, sue the people who pursued a referendum so all county taxpayers could vote. How many chairs have fallen off of Porkies, Blackjack, Marquette, or others. Read the article, none, nada. Geologically Mt. Bohemia has not moved in thousands of years. It would have waited another year, but no , Breakwinds had to rush forward, and now they are the ones who hold responsibility not the people of keweenaw. So all we can say to you is continue to swim in the muddy river of D'nile.


By Curious on Monday, March 26, 2001 - 05:59 pm:

I know the chairlift controversy is being twisted so that it's just people against the skihill spouting off. But why is there a new hill manager and why would a former manager quoted in the Lode (along with an engineering firm) state that there are equipment and maintenance problems with the lifts. My biggest concern is that a local who went into a job with good intentions is no longer working for Crosswinds, what did he discover that he had to leave or be told to leave. Just food for thought.


By moi on Monday, March 26, 2001 - 11:52 am:

Tom Cat,
Guess not.


By Place blame where it belongs on Sunday, March 25, 2001 - 08:50 pm:

Can anyone tell me how old the chair lifts at Mont Ripley are? I remember skiing there in 72 with the same chair. How about the Porkies, how old are those lifts? Norway Mtn? BlackJack?, etc.

The point is that ALL the lifts in the area are old (some more than 40 years), like Paul said, if there had not been as much rush (because of the opposition), there would have been much more time to make sure that the lifts were at 100%.

Maybe the fellow that fell from the chair should file liabel suite against the people that forced the referendum, that is where the real problem lies.


By whirlybird on Sunday, March 25, 2001 - 08:05 pm:

Paul:
It is not about the age of the iron. It is about junky old used equipment. Now why would the newspaper at one of the most prestigous engineering university's in the nation publish a bogus article? Quoting engineering reports from the engineering firm that put the lift up? I dont think it is a case of cub reporters manufacturing something that isnt so. The lift equipment may be thirty years old, the age of the iron is not the problem, thirty years of wear and tear on moving parts. Now you and I both know that moving parts require maintenance and replacements to keep the machinery functioning properly. Lack of replacement of worn parts is asking for trouble. Just let your brakes wear down and not replace them. Breakwinds, in their rush put those lifts up cheap and fast. That is the problem.


By Tom Cat on Sunday, March 25, 2001 - 05:13 pm:

moi
I think the Keweenawtoday is doing a great job and the the Mining Gasette is also doing a great job. They both do a good service to the community. I guess I just don't understand you type of people

Tom Cat


By moi on Sunday, March 25, 2001 - 03:23 pm:

One look at the keweenawtoday site, and you can see what type of people are its authors.


By PAUL EAGLE RIVER on Sunday, March 25, 2001 - 10:57 am:

Whirlbird, Hence forth you shall become (FAN FEATHERS) second cousin to (BIRDBRAIN), and Great Grandson of (FANCYPANTS). Lets wait and see if the lifts have on going problems before we resort to age of IRON. Is the BIGMACK older in age than the lifts. How many people were injured by bad design on the bridge? Iron that is thirty years old is new as far as big iron goes!!!! I will think of the inncident as a freak. Do you know of anyone who skied the hill, and what were their remarks?


By Salt Gavage on Saturday, March 24, 2001 - 06:36 am:

I was out with the snowshoes on somebody's property looking for some trees to tap when I picks up some chunks of metal. Fairly certain, am I, that I've had the good luck of coming across some fragmented pieces of the Mir space station. Those Russians, what comedians. They stamped their station with a "MI $.10" on it. Well, I may not be the one to pick up the tons or so that fell in the ocean, but what I have ought to be worth something. Anyone interested in making a purchase of some rare Mir space station debris, please call 555-2554.


By whirlybird on Friday, March 23, 2001 - 10:22 pm:

What a suprise that the Lode newspaper at Michigan Tech has a story about safety concerns at Mt. Bohemia. Did anyone read anything like this in the Gazette? I dont think so. Go to keweenawtoday.com and see for yourself how good the lift is.


By Here Catfish! on Friday, March 23, 2001 - 02:42 am:

tapestry.jpg

By Carole Kingas on Friday, March 23, 2001 - 02:34 am:

My life has been a tapestry of rich and royal hue
An everlasting vision of the everchanging view
A wondrous woven magic
In bits of blue and gold
A tpaestry to feel and see
Impossible to hold

Once amidst the soft and silver sadness in the sky
There came a man of fortune
A drifter passing by
He wore a torn and tattered cloth
Around his leathered hide
And a coat of many colors
Yellow green on either side

He moved with some uncertainty
As if he didn't know
Just what he was there for
Or where he ought to go

Once he reached for something
Gold and hanging from a tree
And his hand came down empty

Soon within my tapestry
Along the rutted road
He sat down on a river rock
And turned into a toad
It seemed that he had fallen
Into someone's wicked spell
And I wept to see him suffer
Though I didn't know him well

As I watched in sorrow
There suddenly appeared
A figure grey and ghostly
Beneath the flowing beard
In times of deepest darkness
I've seen him dressed in black
Now my tapestry's unraveling
He's come to take me back
He's come to take me back

By Sam on Wednesday, March 21, 2001 - 01:37 pm:

Beep! The old flame keeps on burning!


By Tom Cat on Tuesday, March 20, 2001 - 05:03 pm:

Happy Spring to all.

The Keweenaw,a great place by a great lake.


By Mac Fleetwood on Tuesday, March 20, 2001 - 01:26 am:

And let's not forget The Green Manalishi(with the Two-Prong Crown)

fleetwoodmac2.jpg

By John Phillips Sousa on Tuesday, March 20, 2001 - 12:22 am:

Since it's Monday Monday and I'm California Dreamin', here's a nostalgic glimpse at what was once called the New Frontier:

who2.jpg


Happy Trails Young Highwayman!

By One of Zee Die-RectoRs on Sunday, March 18, 2001 - 08:08 am:

Fruit or Vegetable Feast

Give the chimpanzees a variety of fruits and vegetables.

Problem Solving

Place enrichment out of the reach of the chimpanzees. At CHCI, we sometimes tape enrichments 10 feet high on a bare wall. The chimpanzees have devised ingenious ways of procuring the items.

other kinds of enrichments


By Fortune Cookie on Saturday, March 17, 2001 - 10:54 pm:

Discontent is the first step toward progress.


By Kermit O'Leprechaun on Saturday, March 17, 2001 - 06:32 pm:

Here's an update on where the Bush administration may be heading in response to the roadless initative proposed by Clinton. I can't recall if any U.P. forests were affected by that policy or not.

Forest Rules Postponed Again by Bush
By DOUGLAS JEHL March 17, 2001
WASHINGTON, March 16 — The Bush administration signaled today that it might consider a settlement that could significantly scale back the effect of Clinton administration rules putting a third of the national forests off limits to development.

Click here for rest of story

By Dose-E-Aye-eh! on Saturday, March 17, 2001 - 09:16 am:

Pro-Men-Aide & Dose E D'oh!:
I got one for yah. What kind of science was perpetrated with the barrels when the science fiction said was serving as a freakin' sea-wall? How many barrels were there in this HOT SPOT in Torch Lake? 808 barrels mentioned in one location. 208 mentioned in another. I read:


Quote:

The barrels were investigated and determined to be either empty, holding an inert slag material and/or being used as part of a sea wall. The single barrel found containing any potentially toxic material was determined to contain products most likely used by and auto-body shop and it was recovered from the lake.




What the h-ell does that mean? …inert slag…potentially toxic…? Whud they find? A bundle of air-fresheners, the kind you hang from the rear-view?

And what exactly was that building used for that is still standing there between Louie's Super Value and the lake? Why wasn't that one torn down, like the many others?!!!!
Let us know, will ya, if you learn how many barrels were actually investigated. And was this investigation done while the barrels were in the water? And were the barrels left in the water? And how many barrels were there? And are barrels, like tires, a legitimate form of break-water wall? And if it is a wall, how, pray tell, did they investigate all of them?!!!!
(here in anonymous ranting, poetic license allows things like ?!!!!)

Yeah, and those bass-turds with PAC who think the lake is pristine, clear, a regular fountain of freakin' youth. Hows 'bout we make 'em a cake, two parts stampsand tailings, and one part Torch Lake water--we'll even filter it, and maybe the chemicals used in the copper reclamation process have disappeared by now--shoot man, that elephant's trunk that extended from the reclamation mill and blew chunks under the highway and out onto the sandbank had a few leaks in it, as the ground under that fire-escape kind of apparatus was a regular stink-bomb of acrid blues, pungent greens, and even rusty blood. Course, there are several dump-truck loads of beach-sand dumped on the ground there, for some reason, and they haven't been spread yet. Go figure. At least it is covered, eh?

By 200 barrels in Torch Lake, all checked? yeah, right on Saturday, March 17, 2001 - 08:38 am:

this was posted irresponsibly in responsible yesterday. it hasn't been brought to anonymouos ranting, like some of the others were, so I have brought it here.

By Environmental Criminal on Friday, March 16, 2001 - 04:37 pm:
"Loss of public access; impacts to local streams and Lake Superior from increased sedimentation and erosion and other non-point sources of erosion; disruption of various shoreline,
wetland, and upland habitats, direct and indirect impacts to flora and fauna there;
these are just of few of the impacts to this rare place in Michigan and on Lake
Superior."
It's interesting to see this project come along. I guess once people get a taste of making a living it's hard to go back to chronic unemployment. Increased sedimentation in a bedrock environment is pretty unique. Wetlands? According to the Corps of engineers, soils must be normally saturated for a wetland to exist. I guess there must be saturated bedrock there. Of course, it is simultaneously an upland habitat. Indirect impacts to fauna? What would that be? Oh, I know, this project must contribute to the decline of calving range for the Porcupine Caribou herd that inhabits ANWR!
Why on earth should Grant Twp require an EA for a residential development? That is indeed a novel idea! A municipal sewer system should improve environmental conditions, not make them worse.
Sounds like another losing battle for our good friends over at LLB, but will no doubt entertain a few of us.


What would be a pity would be for MJO not to listen to the concerns of the people of Copper Harbor and the concerns of the many other people who have enjoyed this area of land and lakeshore.

Down on Torch Lake, there are people serving on the PAC who have called the spending of tax money to cover the sands a fraud. We are paying for the pollution of Torch Lake--whether or not "science" can back it up or not--I haven't heard anything that has said science has not said there has been harm done to the lake, either.

Any developer up there should be able to afford to eat the larger, if not all, of the cost of infrastructure. Or not. And "we" can all pay for the damage from sh-tty septic systems after 40 years, after the developer has made 100,000 on each of the 65 lakeshore lots.

Sounds like a nice trade-off--no room for another lagoon without the willingness to allow reasonable access.


By PAUL EAGLE RIVER on Friday, March 16, 2001 - 10:24 pm:

billybing billyboon, also birdbrain, First off •••• yes I knew what I was doing. I keep getting the picture of Eagle River dump burning with the big black bears eating the stuff well done. I grew up here when the •••• was dumped into any field and Lac la Belle was just another port. Don't give me your hipicrital B.S. about how bad or dumb I am. Point a finger and three point back. Billyboy, aparently you have a list of all us badboys, shove it!!!!! Take your pick, 1 burn it . 2 bury it. 3 put it one big pile so that it will never return back to nature. I DON'T LIVE IN NO COUNTRY CLUB!!! Lets talk about who is •••••••• in the water right now. Lets talk about helping our small business, lets talk about the choices out their to help with the poor out with heat bills, lets talk about the grapevine that runs amock in this area. Lets talk about a forty inches of natural base snow on Bohemia that is just waiting for me!!! Lets talk about those SNOW BUNNIES, forty tommorrow and I hope it goes to 50 degrees. I am going to get some of those beads and do what the Romans do. I'll even muster up enough guts to ski. (SHOW TIME)!!!!! Bird brain I would like to meet you sometime, I bet we would see birdbrain to birdbrain. HE WITH NO SIN MAY CAST THE FIRST STONE!!!!!at least I admit it..SHOW ME THE BEADS!!!!!!!


By BillyBob on Friday, March 16, 2001 - 09:11 pm:

Paul...on the beach,on the land................what difference does it make? The fact that you were burning asphalt shingles (or even attempting to burn them) in a barrel shows that you don't give a •••• about the environment. As far as "tires in the water", that is an accepted and safe means to deal with beach erosion.......even if it looks like ••••. Tires don't react chemically with water at NORMAL temperatures, they are only a threat if you burn them........which YOU probably would. Grow up, wise up. If you soiled your pants you would probably blame Gary. Happy St. Pats Day.


By Birdie, Birdie In the Sky!!! on Friday, March 16, 2001 - 08:56 pm:

Holy Whah Eh!!!
Mardi Gras in the Keweenaw. According to Deve the girls jobs will be to collect as many beads as they can. Hmm, now how do they get those beads in New Orleans during Mardi Gras? I wonder if the girl with the most beads will be the most popular? Will Deve call the play by play action at the hill? I wonder if the Local Law Enforcement will be present to issue citations for indecent exposure? Those same law enforcement officers who I see on television speaking of domestic violence and how they support the local shelter home for abused women. Is this not another way in which women are continuously subjected to degradation for mens thrills? Will WOLV continue to support such functions? Will the Gazette cover this event factually?


On another note, anyone know who the new ski hill manager is? Seems Lonnie and Mr. Henderson had a bit of a falling out. Or should I say Lonnie had a run in with Mr. Henderson he would like to forget. Paul have you applied for the ski hill managers job?


By PaulEagleRiver on Friday, March 16, 2001 - 05:15 pm:

Hey Billy be good!!! Lets get one thing straight, I wasn't burning on the beach. I was on my land. The DNR told me I could burn anything in a 55 gallon barrel, well the shingles don't burn so well in a 55 gallon barrel. Thats where Charlie got a case of the --- cause the smoke went toward his house. The point of the matter is that I could burn bury or do whatever I want to with anything from my property as long as it came from my property. That was until the DNR saw that my place has about75 square of roofing on it. That is when the rules got changed for my case. No big deal cause I was doing it for another reason anyway. I think I got my point across and so I don't burn anymore and something else isn't happening either. If you want to know what is not happening ask Charlie!!! He will tell you what my main point was at the time. As for now billy boy ask about the tires in the water in Lac La Belle. See if that little problem has been cleaned up? Do you remember not so long ago that everything we threw away was burned! My smoke was not as big as you may think, but if you want some smoke go light up the tires in Lac La Belle. Then put the fire out with the septic that runs into it. I'll ask the DNR to check out the water there in August and see who is screwing up the water daily!! Thank You For Your Concern Paul


By sigh on Friday, March 16, 2001 - 02:49 pm:

Unreal. If I understand correctly, this shingle-burning was 4 years ago (?). Why do I get the feeling that some bitter people are dredging up old news in order to discredit an interesting post-person?


By Mimus polyglottos on Thursday, March 15, 2001 - 11:35 pm:

"If you just learn a single trick, Scout, you'll get along a lot better with all kinds of folks. You never really understand a person until you consider things from his point of view...Until you climb inside of his skin and walk around in it."
Atticus

mockingbird.gif

"One time Atticus said you never really knew a man until you stood in his shoes and walked around in them. Just standin' on the Radley porch was enough. The summer that had begun so long ago had ended, and another summer had taken its place, and a fall, and Boo Radley had come out."
Scout

By BillyBob on Thursday, March 15, 2001 - 09:38 pm:

Paul, you the one who has been trashing the beach?? You stop burning shingles because(1) They didn't burn well, (2)your neighbor complained, and(3)you got fined by the DNR. What if none of these things happened? Would they still be smoldering? Unreal. And you call it a "mistake". Bull. You just got caught. Are you a closet downstater?


By Pro-Men-Aide and Doss E Doh! on Thursday, March 15, 2001 - 08:46 pm:

I was reading the minutes of the meetings of the Torch Lake Area of Concern Public Action Council, available on-line at: (insert url here:________)
Of note was the October, 2000 minutes where Martin and Nancy Auer gave a report on their reading of one draft of the Remedial Action Plan. The Auers were paid to read the RAP and to present their findings on the document. Anyone interested in how science is used to argue for or against a subject would find much of interest within the minutes of the meetings of the Torch Lake Area of Concern Public Action Council. Martin and Nancy are experts in their field.

For example, the Auer's report included the following on the "scientific issue" aspect of the RAP, when the RAP used scientific fiction to discuss the beneficial use impairments and the question, what does it mean?


Quote:

People tell what they think is happening, but it’s not demonstrated with numbers, nor is it supported by references to other systems where scientists have studied and found similar things.An example of this is the nice story told in this document about saugers. When their age structure of the population advances into old fish, they can develop tumors. It was observed they did. It was also observed that the sauger disappeared from the lake. It was then speculated that the lake had cleared up following the elimination of milling operations and sewage discharges. The sauger does not like clear water and weren’t producing young fish because they don’t do well in clear water. The population got old, got tumors and then just died off. So now, it’s not sauger habitat and now it’s not terminate. Mr. Auer thought that this is a beautiful line of thinking, but there is no documentation that the lake ever did get any clearer. Normally, in a scientific paper, there would be a graph that would show with measurements how the lake had gotten clearer over the years.




Throughout the minutes that are available on-line (and I suspect in the minutes removed to make space) the Torch Lake Area of Concern Public Action Council is interested in getting de-listed as a hazardous waste site, or some other jargon. Science is used as the fuse for this de-listing concern. One of the members of the Torch Lake Area of Concern Public Action Council even said that the area is a fraud, that there is nothing harmful in the sands, at least from a "scientific" point-of-view, that nothing has really been proven about whether or not the sands, the tailings, that Superfund shoreline is harmful to anyone's health.
Science has been asked and has been found wanting. At the same time, the minutes speak repeatedly about surveys, a mud-puppy survey summer of '99, an EPA bathymetric survey, one of 6 done), and a July 17-21st EPA hallow water survey of some 20 samplings…..a regular pro-men-aiding kind of thing that makes you wonder if the surveyors in question weren't out there surveying because they were looking for "science" to back up covering those d-amned sands that everyone in the area had to breath every d-amn time the d-amn wind blew in the summer!

During one meeting late last year, the Auers reported and Chairman Kappler agreed with what Mr. Auers stated, i.e., the reason for the AOC designation in itself was made based on poor, inadequate and incomplete data that is neither scientifically based or valid in its evidence and/or conclusions…Now, the TLPAC is in the position of attempting to prove that something doesn’t exist that never existed in the first place.}

I grew up in Tamarack Mills and I recall walking that asbestos covered pipe between the Ahmeek Mill and the mill on the south end of Tamarack. I recall throwing rocks at the pipe where the white powder and fibers were exposed and when the rock hit it would make a gratifying explosion of the heathen infidel Nazis who were hiding there in the machine-gun nest. How long does asbestos last? Is that anything like nuclear wste? Wonder what happened to the asbestos? I guess it never existed. But then, I don't recall being surveyed, either. If I had, I could have told them of the strangely colored soils on the other side of the railroad tracks, and even as a ten-year-old juvenile delinquent, I knew enough to stay away from that bizarre looking stuff. Not to mention the blue-colored patches of soil by the mill on the south of Tamarack, and the acrid smell to the air around the mill. Chemicals, I guess. But who knows what is happening with that, as Mr. Science is unavailable for comment. Oh yeah, the soil, nothing grew on it and this wasn't out on the stampsands, but a block away from our house. That color really stood out with no grass or bugs crawling on it.

Wonder what the surveys found? Or are they still unavailable? Or I wonder what a concerned citizen would find were he to canoe out there and take a water sample or two? On another note, the Torch Lake Water and Sewage System should prove helpful for another problem the minutes listed--a lack of moisture, irrigation, for the grasses planted out there on the sands. As you know, the lagoons out there on the sands are the recipients of our long winter glee, both sewage and storm-water runoff. I know one of the lagoons simply leaches out to the lake whatever overflow (300" of snow) comes its way.

Oh yeah. And the sauger? I don't think it dies off from tumors, nor left the area because the lake is suddenly pristinely clear. Everyone in Tamarack Mills (now the politically correct, Tamarack City) knows that the sauger was fished out by a Wisconsin bar owner who could be seen every morning just north of the cuts in Torch Lake fishing by the buoys that were there, one free-standing, the other over-turned. Yeah, he loaded up with sauger and had some great fish fries at his bar down in Wisconsin. Wonder how many saugers would have been eaten up here at a bar? Course, after a few beers, even the most shapely saugers find a plate.

I guess the Torch Lake Area of Concern will henceforth be known as the Torch Lake Area of Recovery, political-correctness at work?

Elsewhere in the minutes I found this: With political correctness mad-at-work, there was a mishap when someone suggested this faux pas, a sign to keep out intruders to the sands:
Keep Out, EPA Superfund Site Under Construction
Time will tell.

By Chat Tell Chattel on Wednesday, March 14, 2001 - 10:18 am:

Variation on a theme by Lawrence:

Recently we heard in Keweenaw's winter night
Marginally frenzied alternatives to an owner's might for a mountain nude forged from hypnotically rugged terrain
a skier's paradise was the broadcast and proclaim
a promenade of opinion followed lawfully cited
and a call for divination though we not exactly reunited

Oh! what a pity, Oh! don’t you agree,
that future plans don’t grow in the land of the free!

So if on your good morning constitutional, your pathless proceed,
Don't stumble on chance or you may arise knock-kneed.
And when you're gone to lie with the rest,
An unplanned move you won't know should the area congest.

By Marmota monax on Wednesday, March 14, 2001 - 06:44 am:

The Setting: The town in a festive mood

Strike up the music, the band has begun, the Pennsylvania Polka. Pick out your partner and join in the fun, the Pennsylvania Polka. It started in Scranton, it's now number one. It's fun to entertain ya!

Stumpy asks, "Does anyone know how to figure taxes?"

The mayor of Punxsutawney: For the answer to that, we need to ask Punxsutawney Phil, Seer of Seers, Sage of Sages, Prognosticator of Prognosticators, and Weather Prophet Extraordinary.

Cut to Cooper, knocking on a heated, hollowed-out log, calling Phil into action.

Everybody has a mania, to do the polka from Pennsylvania!

Cooper takes Phil out, Stumpy on hand to ask:how can you find out what a neighbor's house is valued at? also can you find out how much a new neighbor paid for his house?

Phil: Ask your neighbor. Now! It's time to polka!


By stumpy on Tuesday, March 13, 2001 - 12:28 pm:

Hey doe's anyone out there know how the property tax law's work? I understand the property taxe's went up for just about the entire keweenaw county.Is there a certain percentage that they are allowed to raise them? and how can you find out what a neighbor's house is valued at? also can you find out how much a new neighbor paid for his house?


By look here stumpy on Tuesday, March 13, 2001 - 07:24 pm:

stumpy,
your township officials (supervisor, treasurer,etc) have those answers.


http://www.freep.com/jobspage/academy/tax.htm

Michigan property tax law limits increases until a sale occurs
By JOE GRIMM
Detroit Free Press recruiting and development editor
Property taxes got you boggled? Bad enough if you have to pay them. It's worse if you're supposed to be reporting on them or editing stories about them. Mark Hilpert and Roland Anderson of the Michigan Department of Treasury came in to explain them for us at a February Nooner. Here's the skinny:
In Michigan, taxes are determined by multiplying value times rate.
TAXABLE VALUE
Until 1994, property was valued, for tax purposes, at half its market value. This was called its State Equalized Value, or SEV. (No more abbreviations. We promise.)
In 1994, Michigan voters passed Proposal A. That shifted some of the tax burden off property and onto the sales tax, which rose from four cents on the dollar to six.
Proposal A also limited the growth of property tax assessments. Now, we don't use SEV. We use ``taxable value.''
The taxable value will be the lowest number out of these four:
 This year's SEV
 Last year's taxable value plus 5 percent
 Last year's taxable value plus inflation
 Last year's taxable value times this year's SEV divided by last year's. (Whew! That got a little confusing, didn't it?)
What you really need to know is that this formula can keep taxable value from growing as fast as property value. It limits the growth in taxable value to 5 percent a year or less.
Today, just two years after Proposal A, a property's taxable value is only a few percentage points lower than its SEV. That gap will continue to spread, as long as inflation drives up property values.
This limit on taxable value assumes no significant change to the property: no new family room, no major fire.
The lid comes off when a parcel is sold. In the year after the sale, taxable value kicks up to the SEV, but just for that year. Then the limit applies to future increases, until there is another sale. A parcel's taxable value is printed on the annual tax bill.
TAX RATES
Property owners can calculate their tax bill by multiplying that taxable value by the tax rate. In Michigan, the property tax rate is called a millage, and it is figured in mills. A mill equals $1 in taxation for every $1,000 in taxable value.
A parcel may have several millages in its tax rate. There is likely to be a millage to operate local government, and another for the county. Part of the millage rate may include mills for libraries, police and fire or schools.
Millage rates are not shown on assessment notices. Property owners can find out their millage rates by looking at their tax bills, or calling their local assessor, or their mortgage company. With the taxable value alone, a property owner can tell how much a tax proposal will cost, just by multiplying the millage rate of the proposal by taxable value. The owner of a parcel with a taxable value of $50,000 who votes on a 2-mill issue would be voting on an additional $100 a year in taxes.
For more help, call Mark Hilpert, chairman of the state tax commission, at 1-517-373-3305, or Roland Anderson, administrator of the property tax division, at 1-517-373-0501.


By Johnny O on Tuesday, March 13, 2001 - 01:35 am:

"You see!
There's an answer to everything!"


Scotty to Madolyn in a San Juan Battista horse stable
Vertigo
(1958)

vertigo.jpg

By Good Lovin' on Tuesday, March 13, 2001 - 12:52 am:

gfsclef.jpg

By A Pale Imprisoned Lepidoptrist from Zembla on Monday, March 12, 2001 - 11:07 pm:

"They say that resisting temptation
Is the truest test of character"

Degas(on the nobility of reticence) to Papillon

from Papillon
(1973)

papillon2.jpg

By Nobody on Monday, March 12, 2001 - 08:42 pm:

Name calling and childish answers aside, answers regarding the rules of this state on management of solid waste (including construction debris, tires, and ash) are at the following address (review the solid waste rules):

http://www.deq.state.mi.us/wmd/SWP/sw_r&s.htm

If you're interested in property that has old "ash pits" or "burning pits", I suggest you review:

http://www.michiganlegislature.org/law/GetObject.asp?objName=324-20126

The Keweenaw has long been a place that was far enough away from Lansing to prevent enforcement of these state laws. Perhaps it will be for years to come. Perhaps new developments will make a difference. Time will tell. Nonetheless, these are the laws of the land and they define what's wrong with burning indiscriminately on your property. They also describe how contaminated land is supposed to be managed/cleaned-up. Enjoy.


By PaulEagleRiver on Monday, March 12, 2001 - 02:26 pm:

What part of your tail feathers did I singe? It must be something about the tires or the other burn piles in this area. I suppose dragging my name through the mud is not name calling but it sure does get me mad when you get it almost right. Don't worry about me burning junk cause I got the message loud and clear four years ago. By the way is that old or new news????


By a little bird told me on Sunday, March 11, 2001 - 06:13 pm:

Paul, refer to my March 2nd post. I think I'll just leave it at that. I don't need name calling and childish remarks to get my point across.


By PAUL EAGLE RIVER on Sunday, March 11, 2001 - 11:55 am:

Hey Birdbrain, I missed a post of yours asking about my burning debris. You wanna come see the area where I used to burn the stuff. Everyone else had to take a look. I don't have a problem doing what I want to do on my own land. I guess the difference about me and some others is I still feel the right to do what I want on my own land. Yes the flames were high, so were the ones that burned in the same place for 140 years. It was a old fire pit from before our time. Layers of ash from boom years of Eagle River long ago. I guess you believe in taking it all to one place and have it burn only once every ten years or so. Do you remember the dump that took all of the western UP fire departments to put out with about 4 million gallons? You see its people who think that every move made by anyone is up for review, wrong. I quit burning because it was too close to all the rest of the underbrush. Too much smoke, and a warrant for my arrest if I continued to do it. The burn pit was allowed by the DNR at the time but could only be used for the trash at my place. When the DNR saw that I have 10 different roofs to re roof they changed their mind. That is when I stopped burning. I had many visits with the DNR. Finally a ticket was wrote and I cannot use my land for that anymore without a permit. My 10 dollars will make it allright again. Speaking about who can burn and burn what, How come on state highways stump piles are started with old tires. Why are 55 gallon drums OK to burn anything in? Why is it OK to burn anything anywhere? The problem I have is some can and some can't. I happen to be in the spotlight on a lot of matters. I think it is because I call a spade a spade. You are a spade of a different color yourself. I will refer to you as crow for now, cause you pick up any trash you can. Ask Gary if his burn pile of construction debris by his light house was there when he bought his place? Ask him if that is his property too!! Also ask him if the hundred tires that line his part of the outlet to the big lake were there when he bought the place, or did someone from the past put them there? While your asking questions ask the oldtimers if they know of any old burn piles? Then when you get done cawing and have all the world just right ask yourself if you have ever done anything wrong in your life!! As for our County Atty. ask her if she knows anything about the tires in the water by the lighthouse? Sorry for the delay in my posting and answers but like I said before I have been busy plucking some other birds!!!!! seeya birdbrain!!!!


By Old man looking for a sea on Sunday, March 11, 2001 - 08:34 am:

And here I thought those whales were trying to stop continental drift.


By Wee Willie Wonka--New ELF Spokesperson on Saturday, March 10, 2001 - 09:51 pm:

Wasn't an ELF Transmitter Antennae for "submarine" communications constructed down by Marquette a few years back?
If so, here's a wild claim for your perusal by a former Carter Administration official who may or may not have lost it:

"Environmental weapons, now replacing nuclear arsenals as the weapons systems of the future, if misapplied, may be the trigger of the process of cataclysmic Earth changes.
Electromagnetic weapons are based upon creating charged electromagnetic energy, of varying frequencies according to use, and directing onto a target of choice. Some of the early weapons systems have use extremely low frequency (ELF) waves, and have been used for population control at a distance.
The Woodpecker series of ELF weapons programs by the former Soviet Union in the 1970s directed ELF waves at key brain-wave rhythms at US West Coast cities such as Eugene, Oregon, with the objectives of inducing mind-altering fear or ill health effects in the population.
Since then, these tactical electromagnetic weapons have grown into strategic weapons systems, capable of monitoring global missile activity; inducing population control in continent-size areas, and causing destructive effects against an enemy target ultimately at the scale of nuclear weapons. Electromagnetic weapons systems are becoming the strategic weapon of the future, replacing nuclear weapons for a number of perceived reasons. All major players on the global weapons scene are developing environmental weapons systems. Weapons systems are developed either by individual nations, or by cooperatives of nations.
One prominent electromagnetic weapons system of the US is HAARP (for High-frequency Active Aural Research Project), located in a remote region of Alaska. Started under official cover as "a study of the aurora borealis," HAARP is, in fact, a secret attempt to make the ionosphere into a strategic weapon itself. The results could be cataclysmic.
HAARP is intended to super-heat the ionosphere by using impulses of electromagnetic energy. The concept is to turn the ionosphere, a 600-mile thick band of electrons surrounding the Earth, into a global antenna for detecting missile and other hostile activity anywhere on Earth. According to some critics, HAARP can also be used as a global population control weapon, directing electromagnetic impulses at target population on certain brain-wave frequencies to induce fear, apathy, and other mind-states.
Environmental impact and Earth sciences analysis of HAARP indicates that this weapon system may set off the very sort of processes in the delicate atmospheric and magnetic ecology of the Earth that could induce large-scale Earth changes. These include super-heating of the ionosphere and consequent twisting and distortion of electromagnetic fields surrounding the Earth. The twisting of Earth's electromagnetic fields may induce a tilt in the surface Earth tectonic processes, inducing tectonic shifts and earthquakes. The electromagnetic energy could also induce resonant frequencies in the upper Earth, triggering earthquakes.
Although HAARP is, as the 20th century closes, in its development and testing stages, in some ways, HAARP is like the Manhattan Project undertaken by the Allies in World War II to develop nuclear weapons. HAARP has been undertaken in extreme secrecy, in the name of future security. The difference between the two is that the secrecy around HAARP is designed to keep the world's populations ignorant of the next generation of weapons. For if world public opinion were to know of the drastic consequences of a war fought with electromagnetic weapons, it is likely that the same grass-roots forces which threw cruise missiles out of Europe would stop HAARP as well.
Coming Earth changes may be avoided by stopping the development and use of electromagnetic weapons. Or, as a positivist would say, if we develop and use environmental weapons, we may trigger Earth changes, and this must be avoided.
Halting Environmental weapons, and forestalling Earth changes, means raising grass-roots consciousness of the consequences of global Environmental warfare. Stopping the development and use of electromagnetic weapons will require holding public and military decision-makers accountable."


for more on this click here

By Tolstoy on Saturday, March 10, 2001 - 09:48 am:

How much land does a man need?


By Pahom, rowing around the Ponderosa on Saturday, March 10, 2001 - 09:40 am:

I heard a rumor while having coffee and nissu at McDonalds that three characters were seen marching down the road. They were in camouflage and hipboots and they were carrying fence building material. I'm not sure exactly what kind of land use these clowns have in mind, but one of them had in his possession the Soil Survey of Houghton County Area, Michigan, another had an electronic calculator and a plastic bag full of white tape. All three had a fiery gleam in their eye. They would stop occasionally and drink something they claimed was mesimarja. Afterward, they would babble about sidewalks, there are too many sidewalks, they claimed. One went on and on about Yasnaya Polyana and he kept asking the question: How much land does a man need?
Do you think they intend to fence off all of the sidewalks so nobody can walk around anymore!


By one of the haves on Friday, March 9, 2001 - 03:32 pm:

Is anyone following the debate over the city of Toronto hauling their wastes to landfills in southeast Michigan?

How about the hazardous waste injection well in Romulus?

Local citizens vehemently oppose both of these dump sites--but Governor Engler supports them. Guess who wins?

You can zone and you can zone...........


By Lynn Torkelson (Ltorkelson) on Friday, March 9, 2001 - 03:06 pm:

Timhy,

I haven't been able to post much recently because of a large current workload and frequent travel, but I do like to read all of the posts here when I get home and find some time to do it.

Sometimes it seems to me that we don't make enough of a distinction between a plan and the (potential) implementation of a plan. If the citizens and property owners in each local area could achieve a consensus on how they'd like their area to look in the next 20-50 years, perhaps we could find ways to encourage that without cramming stuff down the throats of unwilling property owners. Your examples of the actions taken by property owners in the Calumet historic district and along highway 41 make good sense.

Until you mentioned the reciprocal agreement you have with your neighbor, I was thinking about the restrictions a forty-acre area could put on a hunter. Surely hunters, hikers, and nature lovers of all sorts benefit by keeping large contiguous tracts of land undeveloped and available to the public. To me, that fact implies that we should try to make it desirable for the owners of such tracts to keep them intact--rather than to try to force the owners to keep the tracts intact by law. Because timber interests now own large tracts, we should be supportive of the timber industry, for example. We should encourage, or at least not hinder, the development of new area businesses that use timber as a raw material.

Lake access for local people could be in trouble if developers look only at the short-term bottom line (and that's all lots of managers do look at). But in the longer term, it's better for both the current residents and the developers if easy access to the lake is guaranteed from many locations. It would be quite unfortunate, in my opinion, if people who've lived and worked here all their lives lose easy access to the lake because they can't afford a lake lot. But the developers would eventually lose by such a scenario also, because all of the inland property to be developed would lose considerable value if lake access becomes difficult. So it should be possible to forge an agreement among developers and local residents about ways to maintain easy lake access for everyone's benefit.

And, in my opinion, there is some land that just should not be developed because it cannot support the septic systems required or because the land plays too important a role environmentally to be used for housing or commerce. If a land-owner purchases a tract in good faith with the intention of developing it, and it later turns out that new rules prevent its development, then that land-owner should be allowed to sell the property to the government for its fair market value. In my view, if the government mandates a particular usage for some land, then the owner should be able to say, "Okay, then you buy it," and get a fair price instead of a screw job.


By O.I.O on Friday, March 9, 2001 - 03:04 pm:

Outraged in Oscar
ANDY! What! Are you saying! Are you suggesting that a landfill be placed in Keweenaw County! Are you Crazy, man! We took a poll at the coffee shop and half the county was there and EVERYBODY, and I mean everybody agreed that there is just no way the county could feasibly sensibly even consider such an outRageous proposal!
Look at a map of the Keweenaw, man. Water on all sides! Everyone here will fight it to the death! Pull-leeze, surely you jest.

Now it's back to my favorite book, We Come and Go


By Andy Griffith, Sheriff, RFD on Friday, March 9, 2001 - 03:02 pm:

I've heard of a Superfund site in either Indiana or Illinois. An old landfill site. Several large corporations used the landfill, as did numerous small businesses. After time, problems were discovered with the landfill. Contamination was leaking out, harming groundwater. A clean-up was initiated. But not before costs were distributed. Evenly. So while the wholly-owned Ramjac Corporation disposed of 3 trillion tons of hazardous waste, their share of the cost was the same as Ma and Pa Fingernail Polish, who disposed of out-dated fingernail polish from their shelves at the same landfill. Of course, nothing like that could happen around here. Cause as we know there are some who don't use a landfill and so there are no records of them visiting the landfill and so they wouldn't be sharing in any cost to clean up any contamination.
Tick…tick…tick…tick…


By one of the haves on Friday, March 9, 2001 - 02:51 pm:

Pink Sunglasses,
I agree that people should have the option of a planned development in town. And I think they do. I don't know how many, if any, lots are available in Shopko Estates. I do know that up the road, residential lots are available across from Moyle's new senior complex. Also, lots are available in the new development behind Wal Mart, in the Sands, and in Isle Royale Estates on Green Acres Road. I could be wrong, but I don't recall a new house being built in Isle Royale Estates in the last five years. For what it's worth.........


By Pink Sunglasses on Friday, March 9, 2001 - 02:32 pm:

one of the haves,
Message received. Issue with the following:


Quote:

But to suggest that people shouldn't be able move out to the country and that they should live in a planned development in town is just plain nuts.



What is plain and salty nuts is that anyone suggested anything of the kind. They should have the choice, however, of being able to locate in a planned development close to town, instead of having to purchase a 10 acre parcel in the country.

I'm going to assume that the subdivision near Shopko is being filled. I'm also going to assume that had those people not had the option available to them, they too would be breaking ground out in the country somewhere.

I may be wrong. I may be the only person in the Copper Country who thinks as I do. If I am, then I don't think you have anything to worry about and the land will continue to be subdivided until you would need a page a large as a billboard to illustrate land ownership with the names of owners.

Houghton County does not have any real zoning to speak of. I think the City of Houghton has city zoning. Hancock may have something like that, too. I believe a southern township has some zoning, a farm-country township in southern Houghton County. As far as the rest of th county of Houghton goes, almost anything can happen, and usually does. more later.

By one of the haves on Friday, March 9, 2001 - 02:13 pm:

Pink Sunglasses,
I agree wholeheartedly about the need to monitor and enforce environmental regulations. Show me ANY Superfund site and I'll show you a cleanup project that is being subsidized by tax dollars. But, my response wasn't directed toward industrial land use (which I believe is already addressed through zoning). Rather, I was responding to some of the comments made about people who choose to live in the country on their forty, eighty, or whatever number of acres they are fortunate enough to own. Should I be able to do whatever I want with my own land? Absolutely not! I have to abide by the environmental regulations and zoning laws the same as anyone else. I need to get a permit if I want to build and buy a fishing license if I want to fish in the river that runs through MY property. I don't have a problem with that! But to suggest that people shouldn't be able move out to the country and that they should live in a planned development in town is just plain nuts.


By Pink Sunglasses,Incognito on Friday, March 9, 2001 - 01:23 pm:

one of the haves,
I'm almost afraid to write anything on this board anymore. Of course, I realized before tacking anything up on this board that if it was read, it could easily be misinterpreted. And of course, once a story is repeated ten times around the people in the room, the end result could be so far from what the original was that before long there's enough moral gas in the room to gag even the innocent.

Thirty some years ago, in Tamarack Mills, we would listen to the radio. I remember listening to Bob Olson (who later became Superbody, as I recall, chuckle) and a show on Wimple Radio (WMPL) called Hotline, or something like that. The time was the summer of '68, give or take a year or two. I recall being hunkered down on the paint-peeling floor of the front porch with some of the neighbor kids and my sisters, Cherokee Nation playing on the radio resting on the porch rail, a kind of short wall that some of us were riding as if it were a horse. Before long, the song stopped, and another caller was taken. One of our mothers, complaining about the dust from the stampsands blowing across that Torch Lake, that Superfund shoreline, and us, outside, giggling because we knew who the caller was and after the call ended, we left the porch and several saddle-like imprints on the porch rail. As we petted the step rail while rushing down the wooden steps, our hands gathered up the dust there.

It wasn't until '77 before money was found to supply the town with a sewer system. Much of the sewage generated by the town found its way to the nearby creekbeds, and from there, to Torch Lake. I know one of the neighbors had a septic system and when their laundry was done, a nasty and foul smelling flow made its way through their yard. I think some of the people who complained about the sands and the dust, something obvious and seen, also knew what happened with the sewage. The dust from the sands, as you probably know, was the result of copper mining, one land use. The sewage that wasn't addressed until 1977, was the result of land use.

Based on that illustration alone, one of the haves, would you say the potential is there for land use that should be questioned? I'm sure you have heard a dollar amount that is being spent to cover the sands. We probably won't hear very much, anymore, about the bottom of Torch Lake and the contamination there that is too costly to address. I don't think the shareholders of C&H stock had to worry about paying for any of it, and I don't think the owners of C&H had to worry about the clean up, either. But if you are a Peninsular Gas customer, you are helping pay for another land use that wasn't questioned at the time, either.

Okay, so maybe one day in the future, when people begin to see a problem, then more people will try to do something about it. And what will it cost then? Or maybe nobody will see anything, because we'll adjust ourselves to our surroundings, and the only people who will notice the change will be those who have been around long enough to witness them.
Does one put a white picket fence around one's house if it is out in the country? Or is that only in the dream? Maybe fence building will become the hot occupation of the future? Let's see, 64 lots, at ten acres per lot, h'mmmm.


By moi on Friday, March 9, 2001 - 11:37 am:

Walt, I've come to the conclusion that my living on 40 acres is in fact very wise. It keeps me private on all sides. No fighting with the neighbors. None of them mind my business. Beautiful.


By sigh on Friday, March 9, 2001 - 11:30 am:

Concerned,
Your name doesn't fit. Socialists aren't "concerned".


By Timhy on Friday, March 9, 2001 - 11:11 am:

Walt,
Amen to your last statement. See you on the high side.

PS Can't wait for those little fishies to start running, huh. Maybe I'll see you up there.


By one of the haves on Friday, March 9, 2001 - 11:07 am:

Walt,
I find the extremist tone of this discussion very troubling. I think a large percentage of the people who live up here do so because of the quality of life. For many of us, living on that forty, eighty, or 1,500 acres (George Bush's ranch) is known as the American dream. I seriously doubt that too many of the people living out in the boonies would be content living in a subdivision. The houses alone in Shopko Estates are worth more than my 40 acres, my house, barn and outbuildings combined. Do you think I'd trade my dumpy little farmhouse in it's picturesque setting so that I could look out my window and wave to my neighbor as he's sitting at his breakfast table? If land use planning means that we should all be herded into the "cities" to live, I can think of other areas alot more attractive than this one. Because I can afford to live out in the sticks, it makes me more willing to put up with the poor health care services (like having to drive to Marquette for oral surgery), higher gasoline prices, the lousy quality and selection of fruits and vegetables, etc. Of course, for those who CHOOSE to live behind Wal Mart, I say, GO TO IT!


By Walt on Friday, March 9, 2001 - 10:24 am:

Haves,
At the land use workshop in Calumet, an assortment of written material was given to those who participated. In the pages of one, called Better Designs for Development in Michigan, Chapter 1-1, cites a report called, "Michigan's Environment and Relative Risk," released by Governor John Engler in the spring of 1992. The Relative Risk Committee was composed of scientists, private citizens, and state officials.
The page tells us, "to the surprise of many…" and that includes those mentioned above, an "absence of land use planning that considers resources and the integrity of ecosystems was among the most critical environmental problems facing Michigan."
The committee echoed the realization that most environmental problems have a land use basis.

The next paragraph details land use patterns and how they relate to population increase. We are using more land for the increase in population---we are using more land than was used in the past. In the past, we were able to house more people on less space that we are doing today.

And recently, I Bryon Sailor (DNR office, Baraga) sent me some information on our forests.
I had a few questions and he answered them in a letter and he also sent a wealth of other information and related facts. Part of that information included a couple pages from a platbook from areas in Kalkaska and Cheboygan Countys--I believe in the L.P. The pages compare and illustrate land ownership changes in two sections of land. The Cheboygan County pages (T.33 N.-R.2W) include a one from 1960 and another in 1994. A child may be able to stay within the lines of the 1960 version were he or she to color it. The 1994 page, on the other hand, would require a steady hand and a sharp pencil. Six sections of that part of the County, six square miles, have been divided into 64, 10-acre parcels. So a 640-acre, one square mile parcel, and there are at least 6 like this, provide housing area for 384 homes.
My guess is you could place every town, village, and city of the Copper Country within that area. The City of Calumet housed over 100,000 people a one time. Am I wrong, or would this illustrate two extremes? The Kalkaska County pages show the same pattern.

I think the Land Division Act, or some other act, is responsible, in part for this kind of land use. We were informed at the land use workshop that Ohio, a border away, does not have this extreme land use.

So, one of the haves, I think that answers your first question: Where are these areas? I don't know how to answer your second question: What people--the haves or the have nots?

Tim,
You suggest that I should, listen to myself? An earlier post by Nawiht Wekti told of a land use that you supported. My post, that you take issue with, is an echo of Ms Wekti's illustration of land use. And if you would go back and read myself, I think my message would become clearer, as you seem to have ignored much of it while. I don't think the people who live in the towns around here would agree with your definition of them as "cattle". I repeat myself--I contend that there are people around here who would have built in a "sub-division" had one been available to build in, rather than to be herded onto the south 40, that they didn't want, anyway, but were forced to…..possibly because of the same Act that resulted in 10-acre parcels downstate?

Here's a saying that I enjoy: If you can't help someone out in life, why disturb their peace of mind?


By Timhy on Friday, March 9, 2001 - 09:26 am:

woops, I meant I was glad to see the IP/LSLC reps at the meetings. Sorry
bye


By Timhy on Friday, March 9, 2001 - 09:24 am:

Good Lord Walt do you hear yourself. If I am reading you correctly, your talking about herding everyone into subdivisions like cattle so they do not build a home on thier (or is it your) precious 40.
I am actually kind of glad you are the only one yelling now. I was not speaking of you yelling specifically because I think we are just bantering each other here ha ha (ok maybe just a little). The yellers I am speaking about are the rude, ignorant ones that showed up at the Kew meetings, not you. These are the people who will ruin any inkling of a reasonable and defensible zoning plan that is fair and just to all residents. And actually, I was glad to see those individuals at those meetings.

As for me, it ws fun while it lasted, my kids will be home tomorrow (unless plans change) and I might not be checking in. Here are some of my favorite quotes.

"The best of all governments is that which teaches us to govern ourselves" Goethe

and of course

"Children are God's apostles, sent forth, day by day, to preach of love, and hope and peace" Lowell
(Don't know if it applies but I like it)


By one of the haves on Friday, March 9, 2001 - 08:45 am:

Walt wrote:

"In other areas, people are finally waking up to the idea that a single home on a ten-acre parcel is unwise."

Where are these areas? What people--the haves or the have nots?


By Your Shaggy Ally on Friday, March 9, 2001 - 01:03 am:

I find ecstasy in living
The mere sense of living is joy enough


Emily Dickinson
(1862)

By Nick Adams--U.P. Outback Survivor on Thursday, March 8, 2001 - 11:37 pm:

If you (want to)
Let tomorrow be today
Don't wait
Don't hesitate
Cuz I want to tell ya
And I have to tell ya
Dreamin' isn't good for you
Unless you do the things it tells you to


3 DOG NIGHT
(1969)

By Walt on Thursday, March 8, 2001 - 09:41 pm:

P.S.
Tim,
I willing to own up to it:I am the only one yelling, hollering if you will, on this site and I was in favor of the ski hill, in case you forgot. And I'm in favor of land use planning and zoning for Houghton County and a land use plan and another look at current zoning in Keweenaw County. Not to work on that issue would be folly.


By Walt Anderson on Thursday, March 8, 2001 - 09:36 pm:

Here's a problem: For the majority of the last twenty years, there have been few options for those looking to build a new home. Some options included:

  • a water's edge property
  • the rare vacant lot in one of the area towns
  • buying a parcel of property in the country

Being a builder, and taking an interest in where building has taken place and where opportunities exist for building, I've noticed that if an area town has had vacant land on a developed road, people have built there in the last twenty years. Isle Royale Street in Laurium is one example, the north edge of Lake Linden is another, the first block east of M-26 in Dollar Bay is another--the roads have existed here and vacant land was there so people built there. Recently, Houghton and Hancock have seen roads developed in addition to the roads that have existed for years and years.

But what about the other people who have located in the country? Did they need or even desire the fruited plain to build a home on? I hazard a guess that not all of them wanted a 10, 20, 30, 40-acre parcel or larger to build upon. They simply wanted an opportunity to build a new home on an existing road and they have done so. I submit that some of those 10-20-30-40-acre parcels of ground could still be undeveloped land had the people who built there had an opportunity to build in town.

What other options have I seen? I'm not sure what the lots are going for in the Houghton and Hancock areas where "sub-divisions" are being developed. But one area I know of has lakeshore lots starting at $95,000.00. So, yeah, your average mechanic who works from 6 o'clock in the morning until 9 o'clock at night may be able to afford the down-payment on one of those lots by the time he retires. If he lives that long.

Or maybe, the townships, developers, realtors, someone, will see how fast the undeveloped land is disappearing because it is easier to afford ten acres for a thousand an acre than it is to locate in a "developed" area for 95. In other areas, people are finally waking up to the idea that a single home on a ten-acre parcel is unwise.

Consider this: What does a 40 cost? What does an individual lot cost? What would it cost to develop the 40 with some form of infrastructure? And if the 40 could be developed with conservation in mind, how many other 40s would be saved? And if 30, 40, or 50 individual lots were available on that 40, with the seeming demand for a location to build, and the only option being a $95,000 lakeshore lot and a $14,000 lot on that 40 you develop, where do you think people will buy?

Certainly, there will be some that will insist on possessing a 40-acre ponderosa and building their home thereon. I don't have a dog--and I'm sorry if it disappoints --in that fight. I am saying that if other alternatives and options were provided for some of the people who either want to stay here after graduation, or locate here from another area, then perhaps some open space would remain somewhat open, rather than have the kind of development that would be called sprawl in any other area of the country, should one care to investigate. Your turn.
By FYI Guy on Thursday, March 8, 2001 - 09:22 pm:

Concerned:
Both Art Abramson of IP and Walt Arnold of LSLC attended the recent Common Ground meeting in Mohawk. Last I heard, IP/LSLC still owns a large amount of acreage in Keweenaw County.
Let's not make a myth of reality before it ever gets off the ground.
Why so glum, chum?


By Walt Anderson on Thursday, March 8, 2001 - 07:34 pm:

concerned,
I do not know where you are located, nor your affiliation with the "Keweenaw" nor your idea of "Keweenaw". In my case, I live in Houghton County and I care about both counties, and I have posted ideas I see as problems with Houghton County, problems that could become Keweenaw County problems. I have been posting ideas on this site and the previous sites for a long time.

Do a word search of "septic", "driveways", "driveways every hundred feet" "Houghton County has no zoning" "this development has used over 800 acres for 2 home sites whereas the entire incorporated area of Calumet and Laurium could be placed therein" "if development continues up and down every paved road in the area, it will remove countless acres from effective forest management"

I'm sure there are others. If you do not think those are problems, tell me why. As for what I understand about your concerns, you mention something about a strip mall that I have only heard about here. Are you privy to some information that is only being passed privately?
If so, make it public, for how are we to address a concern if it is hidden from view?

If the "strip-mall" (is that what I think it is?) is planned for Houghton County, as I see it, it can be placed almost anywhere in the County.
If it is Keweenaw County, then there is likely a study to show need somewhere, or it is being done.

If you're only venting out of frustration, welcome aboard.


By Gass E. Asheous on Thursday, March 8, 2001 - 07:11 pm:

Ever since taming the dinosaur, modern man hasn't had to look for a home in the cliffs overhanging the jungle garden. Billions and Billions of years ago, during one of the annual Home Builders meetings on residential development, several well-to-do Neanderthal businessmen agreed, over cigar smoke and dry martinis that it would be more
loo-crative, to build in sensible places, like the fruited plain. That way, with fellow Neanderthals needing burial--predators no longer found them tasty--room could be afforded for cemetery plots. Land Division and Zoning were born. The first zoning plan was scratched in Kalkaska-Waiska sands, at 8 to 15 percent slopes. Oog Oog son of Oo-U-Lug! is credited with the idea. Everyone joined hands and danced in a circle. Harmony was celebrated.

Sustainability, a goal during the Stone Age, was fostered with the idea of a golden cave awaiting those who exhibited wise land use during their stay on Earth. Uneaten Neanderthals had to go somewhere, right? Unfortunately, another clan from the late-cave-payment district decided that that was too repressive, so they suggested one could reach a higher state of nirvana while on Earth, as there was no tomorrow, if one were simply to live long and prosper. And keep one's nose to the wind. The only problem was that all h-ll broke loose. With no golden cave waiting for everyone, most cave dwellers let their caves go to h-ll and argued loudly for their right to do so.
The kids usually ran away to the Bronze Age, so why sweep out the brontosaurus bones?
And yet still others decided to forego the zoning and land use laws altogether. They built in the swamp. Today, Venetians stubbornly cling to swamp building as a viable land use. Hence the expression, Venetian Blinds.


By concerned on Thursday, March 8, 2001 - 06:56 pm:

I am not an expert in the field but it seems to me that the land use plan, as many people in Keweenaw view it is a myth. For one second, do the "people" at the meetings think they are going to decide the fate of future development?

WAKE UP.
1. I don't see any major land owner at any of these meetings.
2. The number of Keweenaw officials at the meetings is limited.
3. I don't see very many conservation groups at the meetings.
4. I don't see very many lawyers or accountants at the meetings. (Despite what some may say or believe, these two groups are important.)
5. You cannot STOP development, the best you can do is create ordinances to control type. (Many of these ordinances are already in effect. If you want to add more, write a proposal, go to the board and make a presentation, ie a billboard restriction, type of construction, no casino, outlet malls.)
6. I don't see anyone addressing REAL problems.

Keweenaw is a unique area. It is unique in its location, problems, people, businesses, etc. The "people" of Keweenaw must learn these specific problems and learn how to address them. An "example" from out of the area is only useful if you know the local condition and how that "example" applies to it. I'd bet the barn that 90% of Keweenaw residents know NOTHING about any of this.

I admit that the Keweenaw is about to go through changes and unless the "people" of Keweenaw don't wake up, they are going to cause the exact problems they are trying to prevent.

concerned


By Timhy on Thursday, March 8, 2001 - 06:16 pm:

Sorry concerned. Thought we were discussing the possibility of a new Land Use Plan in Keweenaw. This would effect EVERY land owner in the county. And as it seems now the only people yelling are the same ones that yelled at Bohemia.


By concerned on Thursday, March 8, 2001 - 05:22 pm:

The posts of the last few days have been a joke. It is amazing how people can debate pointless and meaningless material for so long. If there were a beating a dead horse award to give out I can think of a few candidates. Let's wake up.

I thought the point of this site was to discus issues in or related to the Keweenaw. Sure, a theoretical debate on what landuse means might have some relevance but it is not accomplishing a •••• thing.

Let's get to some specific issues and specific ideas that we have the ability, courage and energy to follow through with.

concerned


By timhy on Thursday, March 8, 2001 - 04:39 pm:

My point exactly. Ouch, uuch, eeuoch, bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.


By Ya better not go alone on Thursday, March 8, 2001 - 03:55 pm:

Listen mon ami,
If'n youse wants to builds way backs in the wooly swamp dats fines by me. Jus be shor to carry lot of Deet withcha as dose black flies likes da taste of Cajun blood. Jus doan be spectin no bodies to come callin'.


By timhy on Thursday, March 8, 2001 - 01:43 pm:

What about property rights?
If I want to build a home in a swamp with no effect to you at all, why should you be concerned with that? If I want to build a home in an area with trees with shallow roots, why is that your concern? Do we need mother government watching out for my good? Or is it that because you wnt that property "saved", who would not want me to live there?

No matter how you put it or say, it is taking somone's property away from them without just compensation. Lets say government sponsored stealing, empowered by the people to do so.

I believe over time enough people will set aside land. My neighbors and I share our land for hunting and fishing. I let him on mine and I go on his. We are neighbors and neighborly. If we weren't, I wouldn't want the county or state to tell him to let me on his property. Mainly because I do not want the county or state to tell me I have to let someone else on my property. I want to reserve that right.


By Upo Aiganaz on Thursday, March 8, 2001 - 01:17 pm:

Tim,
It is unfortunate that we must limit our imagination to forcing the government or pleading with some conservancy to set aside an area for no development. You would think that eventually everyone would come together to share a vision rather than forcing everything into a polarized pattern of singular ownership with unlimited development rights or shared ownership with no development rights.

This polarized view seems present in your idea of land use:I have a suggestion, get together with land owners, form some group, BUY property and donate it to the county with the agreement that it is never to be developed. Does that seem fair to you? Or is it really more fair to force people to develop the way you want them to?

Recently, I was looking at a map of the outline of Bootjack Road. As the road leaves the Lake Linden area, it follows a path fairly close to the edge of the water, in this case, Torch Lake. About three miles from the Traprock bridge, the road takes an oblique diversion to the left. This "bulge" in the road returns to following water's edge after one mile. Curious, I found a topographic map of the area and sure enough, the road follows the same path there.
But on the topographic map, there are markings that show the area within the "bulge" to be wetlands, swamp, a mini-Everglades right there at the entrance to Torch Lake. Apparently whoever laid-out and built the road realized the futility of trying to put a road where the environment would argue against it.

Rather than fighting to your last breath people who would be daring enough to suggest there may be some areas of ground that one simply should not build upon, why not go one further and take a hard look at where development is happening? The idea is irresponsible and lazy to say the only way to conserve is through government ownership. I think we should be free enough and brave enough to realize nothing should happen in some areas, list the options that could happen in other areas, accept the idea that five feet one way or another could change the options, and together share the wisdom to make it happen. Life doesn't have to be like a box of chocolates.
Regards,
Upo Aiganaz


By timhy on Thursday, March 8, 2001 - 12:03 pm:

Nawhit,
Sounds good. For at least you reap the benefits of YOUR property and the people know going in what they are buying. Sounds like perfect capitalism at work - with similar results as government control. (not for me though) Know a few people in places like this and they love it.


By Nawiht Wekti, N.Y., N.Y. on Thursday, March 8, 2001 - 11:38 am:

Hi Everyone,
I've been following the debate for some time and I would like to offer an idea that I am sure would keep most capitalists curious. With Banks experimenting with the Real Estate market, the Monopolistic realm of Agents with License, those who would like to develop that worthless piece of 40-acre rot-resistant Alnus glutinosa should know this approach has worked in Tadzhik.
It works like this: Realizing that it is the desire of many to live a life of rustic luxury (Daniel Boone with microwave), landowners in Tadzhik have seized the opportunity to cash in on demand by supplying demand with options galore. Of course, if one has land within five miles or less of a major metropolitan Hube, but not within a mile or two of any one Satellite of the Hube, the process is much more lucrative. The 40-acre field of future wood lawn furniture is studied for potential building sites, building locations are identified, each with a view, and a road is then located to accommodate homestead sites that offer rustic luxury and proximity to major Hube. Instead of potential buyers owning "lots", owners own the land directly under their home, and the remainder of the area (that you couldn't build on, anyway, though it is often attempted) is owned by an association of buyers who locate within the site. The shared area, guaranteed to remain in as pristine a state as it was found, attracts buyers and provides another selling point. Mr. Farmer from Dell retains his home site along with the monthly stipend that assures road maintenance. Financing is made available through banks, eager to enter the home-building market. Do-it-yourselfers have nothing but good words to say about the opportunity. Potential Buyers like the idea because they don't have to acquire the entire fruited plain to build on, and they like the idea of having a sense of control over the land use around them. Large areas are left for future forest and other resource management. And buyers have a sense of paying single lot price for the possibility of having some control over a 40-acre area. My husband and I are considering a site near us.


By timhy on Thursday, March 8, 2001 - 10:15 am:

Well viva, you kind of missed the point I was making concerning zoning. The point was that local zoning to distinguish between residential and commercial areas seems like good zoning to me because it is based on real hard facts and safety. Commercial areas have more traffic, daytime parking, and so on which is not really wanted in a residential area.
And also if you knew anything of zoning, an area zoned commercial can still have residential development, but not vice-versa. For example, industrial zoning can have commercial and residential development but commercial zoning cannot have industrial development.

Along with the above, this zoning is typically applied in a concentrated popultion area where differing development can interfere and this zoning typically enhances land values through designation. The zoning you are talking about (with alot of others) is based on personal preference and will initially decrease land values. At least until a zoning board starts giving exceptions hen the zoning will skyrocket.

I have a suggestion, get together with land owners, form some group, BUY property and donate it to the county with the agreement that it is never to be developed. Does that seem fair to you? Or is it really more fair to force people to develop the way you want them to?


By Moral E. Gass on Thursday, March 8, 2001 - 10:09 am:

Viva,
I happen to know Mr. and Mrs. Walmart personally, and I love their innovative and avant-garde statement. I've heard that some have been spiritually moved upon entering one of those "monoliths" as you so ignorantly label them. And really, it should be their business and their business alone how they want to develop their 40-acre plow-field. Tomatoes just aren't fetching a fair price at market. Nevertheless, I have forwarded your post to them and I am sure they will take it into consideration when they begin work on the south 40. I will, however, refrain from suggesting you should be brought before a tribunal. This, of course, just prior to being sentenced to one of the gloomier dominions of our penal system where you so obviously belong!


By Viva la Revolution! on Thursday, March 8, 2001 - 09:41 am:

What would be wrong with having commercial and residential together? Most of the buildings in the downtown areas of the Copper Country had businesses downstairs at street level with people living upstairs. Imagine that--a second level on all of the buildings around the Sharon Avenue/M-26 corridor, a second level for whatever, rentals for students or whoever and outside extremely optimistic parking space. Okay, so maybe they would require a different design, something less like a windowless warehouse and more like the Bluff on the hill. Does anyone spend a lot of time looking at any of those buildings as they walk inside? Seems like most people ignore the front entrance as if they're embarrassed to look at those monoliths, almost like reading the graffiti on the wall, or the intricacy and texture of the grout, prior to washing up. Or at most, noticing a bird's nest on the letter "M", a clump of snow capping the letter "A". Not like walking through the downtown areas where you have the name of someone at the top of the building and you want to look around as you walk, until Speedy Gonzalez flies by and splashes you with snowmelt.


By Timhy on Thursday, March 8, 2001 - 09:10 am:

Wow, I guess you said it all. It is time to pack in this experiment called the United States. Call it the United Socialists. All of us yoopers will have to go live in sustainable government controlled housing so everyone can share the land my father and I paid for with our blood and sweat.


By Hyalophora Ceropia on Wednesday, March 7, 2001 - 06:36 pm:

Tim,
In answer to your questions: Who owned that 800 acres? The property owners own it
Is it right for me to tell tht owner he cannot sell it or develop it because I want to hunt on it. You could tell him, but he may not listen. (I'm trying to think of a case.)
Is it fair to tell someone who owns property who is going to retire on the money off selling it that he cannot sell it for what he wants? No.
He must do as you say so you can have some open areas for your children to play in?
It would help if people would listen. The adults who buy lots there may want to access the lake. They have to travel to the Lake Linden Village Park to do that unless they own a lakeshore lot.
Is it really any of your business what that land is like? Yes, it is my business, as development therein concerns the general welfare of us all.

How the trees grow? Trees with shallow roots tend to blow down in high winds. Within the last year I saw a tree down over a garage off M-26 near Tamarack, and across the lake and a tree on top of a van. The van faired poorly, as did the garage.

Have you so little in your pathetic life except for digging in everyone elses business and life and telling them how to live? Thank you for your sympathy and for concerning yourself with my business.

Don't you think it has gone far enough. Define far enough.
Can't you leave us all alone? If you saw someone running into fire, would you try to stop him or her? I live here. What happens around me matters.

Must you and the government tell me how to live? The government is the people and we should be concerned with what is happening. I believe Ted didn't want to be told, either. There are others; they are mostly in prison.

I can see everyday, especially yesterday and today, what your control and government control has done. I can see it as well, I could see it every day of my adolescent years when we breathed the dust of the stampsands every time the wind blew.

What would make you hppy? Peace on earth, good will toward men.
If I gave you my property and my children and I lived in the city? I'm interested in hearing more.
Or how about some others? I'm not that greedy.
Tear down our homes so you don't have to see the evidence of people? No. People make the world go round.
Is your mother earth more important then people? Can't live in space, or can you?
Is what makes you happy means has to limit someone elses life? No. I'm all for options and alternatives. Unlimited use now limits the future.

P.S. Glad to hear you had fun hunting.


By timhy on Wednesday, March 7, 2001 - 03:45 pm:

My point is; Who owned that 800 acres? Is it right for me to tell tht owner he cannot sell it or develop it because I want to hunt on it. Is it fair to tell someone who owns property who is going to retire on the money off selling it that he cannot sell it for what he wants? He must do as you say so you can have some open areas for your children to play in?
Is it really any of your business what that land is like? How the trees grow? Have you so little in your pathetic life except for digging in everyone elses business and life and telling them how to live? AND FORCING GOVERNMENT TO CONTROL HOW THEY LIVE! Don't you think it has gone far enough. Can't you leave us all alone? Must you and the government tell me how to live? I can see everyday, especially yesterday and today, what your control and government control has done.

This has nothing to do health and safety and everything to do with keeping this county the way you want it. What would make you hppy? If I gave you my property and my children and I lived in the city? Or how about some others? Tear down our homes so you don't have to see the evidence of people? Is your mother earth more important then people? Is what makes you happy means has to limit someone elses life?

If you would like to have a fair and intelligent conversation about land planning start with the right attitude or you will get nowhere fast...especially in Keweenaw County.


By Compsilura Concinnata on Wednesday, March 7, 2001 - 03:08 pm:

Tim,
Concerning balance, as I understand it, the making of a land use plan will include input from everyone at some point in time. How much input the individual wants to share is entirely up to that individual. A land use plan should not consist solely of landowner desires. Keweenaw County has one advantage in that they do not have as many landowners as Houghton County. And fortunately for you and me, there are people up there willing to volunteer the time necessary to make a land use plan happen.

If you as a sportsman fail to see the inherent danger in dividing the land into segments large enough to fit a village, but inhabited by only a single dwelling, the sport of hunting will die before it eventually will. That 800-acre development I spoke about has removed a large portion of recreational land from use. That development has removed 800-acres from future forest management. That development has removed 800 acres from farming as a possible future use.

Nevermind that the Houghton County Soil Survey says that a large area of that development has a seasonal high-water mark of a 12" below surface. Nevermind that that development has trees with shallow root systems because of the high water mark. Nevermind that those trees are subject to blow-down in high winds. Nevermind that that development was built on rolling terrain that is subject to seasonal run-off and erosion--and nevermind how that will affect the septic that will be installed in the area. Nevermind that that development is on Torch Lake, that great polluted body of water that is that way because some property owners were given free rein to do as they wished. But why is it that no one minds that that 800-acre development is large enough to incorporate most of Calumet and Laurium within its boundaries but will likely attract only those with enough resources to buy the $95,000.00 lakeshore lots. This development is evidence enough that if development is left to the good graces of developers, precious little open space will ever remain. I guess if the people who decide to live there get bored to tears, they can always drive to downtown Houghton and walk the waterfront and perhaps say "hi" to someone they know?


Nevermind the word I heard is that the land to the west is slated for the same development, land that is bordered by hills as steep as Finn Street on one side and wetlands on the other end. Perhaps there will be elevated septic in that area?

If you believe that simply because an area of land is in LSLC's name at present, remember that the 800-acre development I've written about was once mining company land. I don't know how many mining companies still own land around here--I've got a platbook and I don't see any listed. But I do see individual names on lands that I know were once company land. The 800-acre development was once company land. The shoreline is usually the first to go. How's Lake Bailey doing? You can look at a platbook to see that the Lake Superior shoreline is already subdivided where no roads exist. Whose future plans are involved there?
This area has many thousands of individual developers with little or no experience in developing property--the Houghton County Soil Survey has an illustration on the cover that shows a development on the Gay-Lake Linden hill--someone's collection of automobiles arrayed in a rather interesting pattern that, while it shows a flair for the unique, a kind of mobile home park for ground squirrels, it does little for the surrounding property. Is that somehow different than a large company polluting Torch Lake? And if so, why?


By Timhy on Wednesday, March 7, 2001 - 11:18 am:

Walt,
What is the balance between fair land control and property rights. Should make zoning that only applies to devlopers. Zoning that only apply to trolls. Or zoning that you see fit. What I am talking about is zoning with agreement from the owner, which you will not get at a county level. You will only get government control.
Does anybody remember what happened at Bohemia when the extremist realized they could stop what they didn't want through the county board (or government). And what happened with an unethical county attorney. Do you honestly believe this same thing could not happen to you or me if any of these same people did not want you to build on your property. Why give them the vehicle to apply the rules as they seem fit.
If Bohemia had been zoned years ago for residentil or more limited conservation, with the blessings of the owner, would there be a ski hill there now. I doubt it. And I also think some people would not have had to stoop as low as they did.

So those are my fears. Perfect example less then a year ago. Huh, and people still don't undrstand what I am talking about.

Gotta go for real this time Walt. You might be interested, I'm going rabbut stalking. Snowshoeing the back 40 with the man's best friend. He seems to be getting perturbed with me sitting at this computer.

See ya


By Timhy on Wednesday, March 7, 2001 - 11:01 am:

Lt
Gotta run for a few hours, so I'll make it quick.

Wouldn't it be nice to have local officials working with property owners and good planners (with a vested interest in the area) all working together to plan for Keweenaw's future. Not the extremists and environmentalists who are too ignorant or too impatient (or too controlling) to actually develop a fair plan. Ahhhh my utopia; fair government which respects the rights of the individual (not just labeled victims).

Whooaaa, almot got going there. Be back in a bit.


By Walt Anderson on Wednesday, March 7, 2001 - 10:53 am:

Tim,
May I hazard to suggest that zoning and land use is even older than the Constitution of the United States of America? When you said, some of you just don't get. Your zoning is a law to control behavior and other people, I considered the Bible, and the words contained therein. Rather than listing the many words in the Bible regarding our behavior toward one another or God, I realized that the Bible probably also addresses land use.
Of course, the New Testament has a kind of socialist agenda in that the early Christians
shared their possessions, and looked after the general welfare of all of the people. So instead of highlighting that aspect of community, I looked further back and found in Ezekiel a detailed plan.

Beginning in the later chapters of the book of Ezekiel, chapter 45 in particular, we find a Zoning Plan and a Land Division Ordinance. Measurements of lots are given and there are even districts that are set aside to protect them from development. Chapter 47 defines boundaries. Chapter 48 addresses more land division and a layout of gates.

And earlier you suggested that those who desire land use planning and effective zoning don't want people to come up here. You wrote, "because you do not want more people up here you want the government to control how we sell your property." I think everyone realizes that it is ludicrous to think that people are not going to move to the area and that there is little that anyone can do to discourage people from desiring to settle in the area.
Much earlier, a post pointed to a downstate county where several 640-acre sections were divided into 10-acre 64 individual home sites. It was pointed out that a large part of Calumet and Laurium could fit in one 640-acre section. Another post pointed to a 800-acre development where the price of a lakeshore lot was $95,000.00. Unfortunately, one can only conclude that the developers of this particular landmass are not interested in community. The motivating goal is profit. What they fail to realize is that is they had set aside a piece of lakeshore property for common use, those lots off the lake would be more appealing--who would want to drive past the lakeshore lots every day only to realize each day that you can not access that lake because there is not common area?

Clearly, those areas were developed for people. But they were also developed to exclude people. So the question should be: Who wants to prevent people from moving here?

I believe in an earlier post that you mentioned logging in an area near L'Anse. Assuming you log, consider the effect or removing from forest management several 640-acre sections of land for 10-acre lots for 64 households. We could eliminate logging entirely if we employed that kind of land use. Apparently you didn't seriously consider the post that tried to illustrate how many acres would be removed from forest management if we limited growth to 40-acre parcels up and down every road available to drive on. There is another point to that drive to get away from it all and that is that indirectly, people are trying to employ a kind of land use plan of their own--they are trying to control what happens on the land around them by buying enough of it, often 20 acres or more, because most of them realize that there is no zoning, no land use plan, and anything can happen, regardless of good intentions and common sense.

There wasn't any land use planning a hundred years ago, either, when the mining companies almost buried Torch Lake with stampsand. Who owns the lake?

And if you want "intelligent conversation," Tim, try flavoring your posts with a less colorful marinade of "mother government" "whining babies" and sentences like, "You people make me SICK."

The Zabulon Skipper


By Timhy on Wednesday, March 7, 2001 - 10:52 am:

Sorry LT, right in the middle of some stuff.

I guess here are (in my humble opinion) some good zoning and proper procedures.

For example, the property owners along 41, between Hancock and Calumet, were all called together by adjacent owners and other officials. From what I heard, a few owners, with some other concerned citizens, were concerned about development along that road. This approach appeared to be the proper way to do it. Get with the landowners who will be affected. Get thier consensus and act on it.
That way they all agree on how thier property will be developed. Any people that buy that property know that is the way it is. They know what they are buying. The owners were not forced into something they did not want and adjacent property owners (not on the highway) were not included.

Another example is what I have heard about the Village of Calumet with thier Historic Ordinance. From what I've heard, business owners and others have agreed that a historic lokk in town would help business. So the owners got together and created a limited zoning for that area. They did not include everybody in the Village; they did not include all the residential areas; they selected an area together, got a consesus and did it. Not all encompassing control. Limited control for the good of the area WITH THE BLESSINGS OF THE PROPERTY OWNERS.

PS, if others heard how the above examples ended, let us know.

In the example I think some people are using is Keweenaw County and Houghton County. They appear to want to zone all of the county so no matter where they drive, they see other peoples property the way they want it to be. Why not get a few property owners together in a limited area and if they agree, let thier property be zoned a certian way.


By Timhy on Wednesday, March 7, 2001 - 10:05 am:

Amen agian moi.


By Timhy on Wednesday, March 7, 2001 - 10:03 am:

Ahh yes LT, (finally sensible conversations)
Of course I have no objections to zoning if at the most local level. If a Village or even limited Township zoning would be more effective. However, at the County level, too many people like the ones on this site willing to take somone elses property away, for thier good.

Anyways, it does seem strange that these people are so willing to take away somone elses rights.

Where have you been? I have been quite busy all over. I have a few days as a bachelor and actually enjoying it. But it seems I need story time as much as the little ones.


By moi on Wednesday, March 7, 2001 - 09:56 am:

You folks are opposed to any big companies. You want to control LSLC and others because of envy. Don't tell me that you wouldn't manage your money the same way- sell the unprofitable land at a onetime killer price, manage the rest. Sure the prices are ridiculous, but that's the way the ball rolls. I'd love to have a lake lot, but will never afford it at the current prices. That doesn't mean I'll try to muscle my way into the land companies' business and try to force them to manage their land differently. They do still have to live with us, and they have to manage their timber. They're not going to sell it all off. Timber need doesn't go away. If we restrict their rights, ours go out the door too. Think carefully.


By Lynn Torkelson (Ltorkelson) on Wednesday, March 7, 2001 - 09:21 am:

Timhy,

I know from your earlier posts that you truly love the natural character of this area. Are you saying that you see no legitimate democratic way for local citizens to preserve its character for the generations to follow?

My own preference would be for planning to occur at the most local levels possible, with friends and neighbors hashing out the issues face to face. But isn't Keweenaw County actually attempting to do that by asking each township to make its own evaluation?

It seems to me that even your examples of good zoning might restrict some people from developing their property as they see fit. These restrictions would be acceptable to most people because, by increasing safety and health, they promote the general welfare of everyone living in the area.

Wouldn't you say that taking some steps to ensure that folks who live in this area can continue to hunt, fish, and hike in the woods would also promote the general welfare of the people living here? And wouldn't it also promote the general welfare to make certain that working people from this area retain natural access to the waters that surround us?

No, I would not like restrictions imposed on the people here by state and federal bureaucrats. But I really would like folks on the local level to take charge of the way that their own communities will grow and change. Even if I don't agree with all the decisions that are made (and I won't), I'm certain that we'll all be much better off than if we leave things to chance.


By Timhy on Wednesday, March 7, 2001 - 09:09 am:

The question you should be asking yourself is. Who in God's name gave you the right to think you could control how somone else lives or develops thier land. This attitude seems quite prelevent wherever you go. You honestly think you know better then all of us what is right for that property owner. I don't think any development is bad as long as it does not harm the public. And to me, private homes on 40 acre plots do not harm me. But I guess I am not some whining baby who wants mother government to make everything the way I want it.
As for property taxes, inome taxes, and every other tax that is not a sales tax is unethical to me. That is why we started this union in the first place to get away from unethical taxes nd government mandated religion and life. But you people keep asking for it and you bet we'll get it.

As for democracy, this country is not a democracy (or was not set up that way). It is a democratic replublic. The democracy you seem to love is actually anarchy, where the might of the whole crushes the individual without any rights. Our country was setup to protect the individual from the masses with certian rights, one of whic does not include forcing others to develop thier land the way you see fit. Try reading your history a little better.


By Just Renting on Wednesday, March 7, 2001 - 08:48 am:

It seem's to me that most you property owners don't realize ,that your property is not your property, it's the goverments. You are just renting it, if you don't believe me Don't pay your property taxes for three year's and see what happen's to YOUR property.


By Probably illegal to do this on Tuesday, March 6, 2001 - 07:51 pm:

From Rhinelander, Wisconsin newspaper

County panel hosts hearing on Newbold proposal


by Heather Schaefer

Daily News staff

County Planning and Zoning officials will be looking for county wide comments Wednesday night when they hold a public hearing on a Town of Newbold proposal to create two separate forestry zoning districts.

The Public Hearing will be held at 5 p.m. in Committee Room #1 of the Oneida County Courthouse, which is located on the building's second floor.

Under current zoning guidelines, all homes in the forestry district are to be seasonal only. In late January, The Town of Newbold proposed the idea of creating two forestry districts, one that would continue to be seasonal only and another that would permit year round residence.

At that time, Newbold Town Chairman Don Johnson explained that there are a number of Newbold residents living in areas zoned for forestry who are full-time residents and under the current rules their homes would be deemed non-conforming.

The committee raised little opposition to the proposal and immediately directed staff to research the fine points of the measure.

The major sticking points of the proposal relate to minimum lot requirements. The current lot size requirement in the forestry district is 50,000 square feet.

During that same meeting, Corporation Counsel Lawrence Heath warned that should that number stay the same and the district be rezoned for year round residency, the panel "might as well call is residential."

Should the committee vote to approve the change, the full County Board would also have to give final approval during next month's regular meeting.


By The Zabulon Skipper on Tuesday, March 6, 2001 - 07:35 pm:

Tim,
I'm encouraged that you are asking questions.


Quote:

What is good development, what is proper development? What you think is right? What the board thinks is right? What the planner or engineer recommends is right?




If you scroll back and read some of the posts regarding land use and zoning, maybe you would begin to question the "rightness" of developing an area 800-some acres in size, with roads, and lot lines, and selling lots starting at $95,000.00 on the shoreline, and some other hog-awful price off the shore. So, yeah, you, me, and every other Joe can afford to live there. And no one is arguing whether or not an individual can or can not develop a price of property. But if you could fit almost all of Calumet and Laurium in those same 800 acres, what will happen over time? How many acres are there in Houghton or Keweenaw County? Does a couple need 40-acres to live on? What happened to community? There is no community in that 800-acre development, unless you want to call it Camelot or the other side of the tracks.

I don't see any room on that 800-acre development for that young couple who bought a house for $5,000 30-years ago in Hubbell, that couple who are part of the bread and blood of our country, but now have to watch while you argue for a developer's right to use a piece of ground, simply because he has the money to do so and develop it with little thought for the future, with little thought of how the land was used before, with little thought of what is being removed from such a large expanse of ground--800 acres that once held farms and forests, gone forever once it is split and divided--it is extremely difficult to join land once it has been split.

But if that future is what you want for the country, that is your right. But I respectfully request the right to disagree with you, sir.
I do not see the wisdom of taking that large an area out of use for the handful of homesites that will be placed there...and there is nothing in the way of land use laws, zoning, ordinances to stop that from happening again and again....

By Timhy on Tuesday, March 6, 2001 - 07:09 pm:

OK Here we go.
Here are some examples (in my opinion) of good and bad zoning.
Zoning which
-does not allow industrial development around a residential area - good because based on safety.
- limits setbacks for on-site septic systems - good because based on science and water flow for health and safety.
- does not allow commercial in residential or industrial areas - good because based on safety.
Zoning which restricts an owner fom building something or painting something the way they see fit is wrong - because it is not based on any safety or health reasons, it is based on what someone other than the owner thinks is right.

Now in the case most people are talking about - limiting peoples oppurtunity to develop thier property the way they seem fit seems wrong to me. Now if those property owners wants that for thier property, so be it, it is thier property. If the Village of Calumet wants to restrict the development in thier community, so be it. But to restrict all the people in all of Keweenaw or Houghton County, huh. Do you honestly think all the people's property you zone will agree with the zoning. And if not, was that zoning based on safety or health reasons. No, more likely it was based on other people's WANT for thier property to look like. It is governmental control where none is needed and should not be.

So skipper and others, just think how someone might want your property to look. And then think about the zoning police knocking on your door to force you to make it look that way, of course at your expense. That is what is at the heart of this.


By sigh on Tuesday, March 6, 2001 - 06:24 pm:

Maybe we should drive through town and start squealing for rules that require fresh paint, cut grass, neat fences, straight shutters, etc. If you try to impose rules on us country folk, we might as well champion cleaning up our towns. Maybe tear down old houses and pack the lots with trailers, huh? That way at least the occupants won't buy up the woods you want to go to in order to escape the towns....no wait....we cleaned them up....heyyyy......


By Timhy on Tuesday, March 6, 2001 - 05:45 pm:

Some of you just don't get. Your zoning is a law to control behavior and other people. Not to protect the public. It is not in the good of the public, it is in your good. It is not intended for domestic tranquility, it is for your tranquility at someone else's expense. It is not for the general welfare of the public, it is for your visual welfare.
What is good development, what is proper development? What you think is right? What the board thinks is right? What the planner or engineer recommends is right?

WHAT IS RIGHT IS TO LEAVE PEOPLE ALONE AND LET THEM LIVE.


By Timhy on Tuesday, March 6, 2001 - 05:10 pm:

Way to go Skipper.
Typical liberal babble with no real meaning. Just vague examples and plenty of insinuations on how you think I think. As for democracy, it works. It breaks down when politicians pass laws to get votes instead of what they think is wrong. And when people try to get legislators to pass laws to get what they want (in this case it is control of neighbors property to keep it the way you want). I remember one quote that went something like this(the end of democracy will be when people realize they can get money for thier votes).

Actually I love my neighbors. And I guess if it takes control of your neighbor's property for your domestic tranquility, we are in trouble.

You ask most people who moved up here and somewhere you'll get to they didn't like the controlling nature of city life. Not a lack of feeling for responsibility. Actually, they probably left because of people like you who wants to control how they live, watch them through the windows, make sure they are living properly.

As for my neighbors, I would help them build whatever they wanted. No matter how I liked it. As long it did not threaten my family. As for you, I'm sure you would turn in your neighbor or pis**** in the woods. Now tell me which attitude more ollows our contitution.


By Timhy on Tuesday, March 6, 2001 - 04:48 pm:

Your obvious intentions are clear. You've got yours, the heck with the rest of us. Because you do not want more people up here you want the government to control how we sell your property. You don't want me to sell MY property because you like the way it looks now. That does not sound too christian to me. If anything you should help your neighbor and any future neighbors, not help the government screw them out of thier money and property. You, and people like you just don't get it. Instead of having an intelligent conversation you call me a whacko and a try to insinuate I'm some kind of paranoid crazy. In actuality, you are the one who is totally misguided. If you actully think control of your neighbor will not mean control of you at one time you better read your history.

As for zoning, Zoning was originally intended for urban areas to distinguish between the residential, commercial, and industrial areas. Primarily for safety, traffic, and utilities. It was never intended to be used for controlling rural areas. Mainly because in urban areas you affect fewer people with previously identified uses and typically increase land values. Not true or rural areas. But you go ahead and listen to your so-called experts (who usually benefit from your zoning attempts).


By The Zabulon Skipper on Tuesday, March 6, 2001 - 04:29 pm:

Actually, Tim, the tone and wording of your posts suggest that you don't hold democracy in high esteem. Rather, your approach is more Machiavellian, might makes right, and if one can split a cord of firewood with their forehead, so much the better. Okay, so I went to the Constitution to look for something that may persuade you of the legitimacy of a different approach to land use.

The first words I find that perhaps land use planning, even zoning and ordinances are democratic, even needed and long overdue, are in the Preamble:

We, the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect Union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution of the United States of America.

Note the use of the words insure domestic tranquility and consider how they may be applied to the issue of land use planning. If the only way we can achieve domestic tranquility is to separate everyone by a distance of 440 yards, then we will quickly run out of room as we endeavor to promote the general welfare.
I haven't found anything in the Constitution that guarantees the right to a 40-acre spread. I'm not saying it's not there, mind you, just that I don't recall reading it. Okay, so I read the Bill of Rights, too, and I read #10: The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

And if I take your argument and run with it--that the reason people move to the country. To get away from zoning--what you are saying is that your don't want to live by rules. You support the notion of zoning with you flight to the country! You don't like what is happening in town--because THERE IS NO ZONING AND ANYTHING CAN HAPPEN--so you flee from responsibility and go out in the woods and hide. You don't want neighbors because you know a neighbor may build something you don't want to look at---so by your actions you indirectly argue for zoning!


By Get plenty of rest on Tuesday, March 6, 2001 - 03:35 pm:

Total up the acreage in whatever county you live in, divide that by 40, and that is how many people can live in your county.

Of course, that means that there isn't any room left for logging (who thought in 1901 that copper mining would come to a halt?).

The government is the people, and if the people decide they want to govern the manner in which the land around them is to be used, then that is what will be.

Hey, if we want the Keweenaw to consist of 40-acre lots, fine, if that's what the people want, nobody has a problem with that. I'm saying that isn't what most of the people want. No need to spit-shine your combat boots, walk around in grease-paint, and stock your basement with food! We've heard your opinion. I'm sure there are others. Or does Fort Wilkins need to be garrisoned again, again with the same purpose of protecting the people from one another?

At any rate, that's mighty Christian of you, neighbor.


By concerned on Tuesday, March 6, 2001 - 03:13 pm:

I am not ashamed to say this but I am truly scared when I think about the future of the Keweenaw. I hear of Outlet Malls(I hear that there are several of these around the country, why do we need one here.), fast food chains, billboards, criminals working at businesses, etc. and I don't want to leave the house. I haven't been in Lac La Belle in about 8 years but with all of the growth there now, I won't be there again.

Is there an answer to all of this? HELP!!!


By Tim on Tuesday, March 6, 2001 - 01:49 pm:

To opinions, one who knows, and others,

TRY READING THE CONSTITUTION AND FED. PAPERS. OUR FOUNDING FATHERS LEFT ENGLAND AND GOVERNMENT/KING CONTROL FOR A REASON. THEY SET UP OUR COUNTRY THE WAY IT IS FOR A REASON. Those who ignore history are doomed to relive it. I for one will fight to my last breath to keep people like you from controlling my life.
Freedom does mean something. And how about innocent until proven guilty. Or is it better to take away our rights because of lazy and ineffective government police forces.


By TIM on Tuesday, March 6, 2001 - 01:21 pm:

I've got a better idea. Everyone get the **** out your house, move into high rise apartments, pay everyone and thier brother to just survive and let people like CLEM control the rest of our behavior. What in the heck happened to freedom? What in the heck happened to live and let live? IT IS GONE! Been replaced by socialist like CLEM and others, perpetuated by people like Tina and others at organizations like Nature Conservancy who think they know better then we do how to live our lives.
The reason people move to the country. To get away from zoning and other ways of behavior management. If you do not like driving down a road nd seeing people living, why not buy all that property yourself? No you insist on government control becaue your too cheap or ignorant to do it youself. You would rather have government control other people's lives. You have no concept of what zoning is yet you insist on using it to control others.

People like you make me SICK. Even so, it seems people like you will be the downfall of this country. And when my children must live in government controlled housing facilities, because that is where people like you want them to live, they will say why didn't they do something to stop the erosion of our freedoms.


By Heiki on Tuesday, March 6, 2001 - 11:02 am:

I hear Crosswinds spent money on a second hand lift - THERE'S A BIG SURPRISE!!!

Maybe thier lodge will be a prefab job that came from the same place as the lift!

Only time will tell what will break next.

After all the hype about how fabulous the hill will be and they use second hand equipment....


By Clem Kadiddle-Hopper on Tuesday, March 6, 2001 - 09:43 am:

Would it be possible to enact zoning, or an ordinance to slow, if not stop, the continued fragmentation of the land that has been happening? Why do people desire to live in the country, on a wood-lined road, or in an opened area better suited for farming? Could we make it possible for the owners of large parcels of land to keep those parcels intact by lowering the demand for a lot in the country? How much room does anyone really need to live? When someone begins to look for a place to build their dream home, supposing they begin their search away from established towns, what options are open to them? Do they need to buy a parcel of ground that is capable of holding a large portion of the town they are trying to stay away from?

Few of the small towns and villages around here have seen any real expansion. My hometown has had maybe five new houses built in it in 40 years. I would have to search long and hard, through many deposits of resource material to discover how many houses were built in the outlying township during the same 40-year period. Even without searching, rather knowing from having traveled certain roads in that township, I know of more five, and in both cases, with one or two exceptions (in town), the building has happened within the last ten years.


For every home in the country, for each desire to get away from it all, there are an increased number of vehicles with plows that are used to clear that path to the door of the house in the country. What this is doing to gas consumption is anyone's guess. But it would be curious to see that statistics of gasoline consumption from 10-20-30 years ago compared to 1990, or 2000. And then compare those statistics to the population of the area for those same time periods. There is no need for statistics. With the increase in the number of people driving more miles to and from work, to and from the grocery store, to and from school, (even though those numbers are offset somewhat by the decrease in the number of miles driven to and from church), how could one argue against the very real probability that the increased consumption of gasoline per population has increased. Still, it would be eye opening to see the statistics.

Okay, so it has become increasingly hard to love one's neighbor. Perhaps that is the root cause behind the drive to the country.

Okay, so we need to start awarding stars for good developments.

We used to believe in the good old days. And then everyone wanted a lakeshore lot and so began the salmon rush to the shoreline, a kind of reverse-beaching, where land animal heads for shore to meet what may come from the water, something we know isn't going to happen, but at least one doesn't have to look at the neighbor painting his house purple and walking around in his yard while wearing nothing but boxer shorts and tank-top tee-shirt.

And when the shoreline became harder to find, we settled on a country road, and if it had a view of the water in the distance, so much the better.

Eventually, as every road in the county begins to look like a village street, sans sidewalk, will people then begin to realize something should have been done twenty years earlier? In some areas, it is already too late.

If that is what people want for the county, for their individual townships, fine, then allow it to happen. But if that is not what people want, there is nothing that will stop it from happening, because it is the desire of the few to live apart, regardless of the consequences for the many.


By Say Whud? on Tuesday, March 6, 2001 - 06:39 am:

I think a land division ordinance is something a township could enact (in lieu of zoning, perhaps)that would govern the fragmentation and land puzzling of the area that is prevalent in Houghton County.

I'll provide more documentation for this--the case of the puzzling land fragmentation--after I visit the archives today to view some of the old platbooks of da area.

Then with some popsicle sticks, hobby paint, toothpicks, and a glass of water, I'll begin construction of a view of a township twenty-thirty years from now.....something that we are doing now...constructing our townships....and once it is done, perhaps people will say, "I don't want to live in that township."

And of course the answer will be, too late...it's yours.


By For Dad from Alex--with some help by Hank Wadsworth-Hall Longfellow on Tuesday, March 6, 2001 - 03:08 am:

THE FIFTIETH BIRTHDAY OF AGASSIZ
May 28, 1857

It was fifty years ago
In the pleasant month of May,
In the beautiful Pays de Vaud,
A child in its cradle lay.
And Nature, the old nurse, took
The child upon her knee,
Saying: "Here is a story-book
Thy Father has written for thee."
"Come, wander with me," she said,
"Into regions yet untrod;
And read what is still unread
In the manuscripts of God."
And he wandered away and away
With Nature, the dear old nurse,
Who sang to him night and day
The rhymes of the universe.
And whenever the way seemed long,
Or his heart began to fail,
She would sing a more wonderful song,
Or tell a more marvellous tale.
So she keeps him still a child,
And will not let him go,
Though at times his heart beats wild
For the beautiful Pays de Vaud;
Though at times he hears in his dreams
The Ranz des Vaches of old,
And the rush of mountain streams
From glaciers clear and cold;
And the mother at home says, "Hark!
For his voice I listen and yearn;
It is growing late and dark,
And my boy does not return!"


By Banjo Man at High Rock Bay on Tuesday, March 6, 2001 - 02:33 am:

If you want to be free
BE FREE!


haroldandmaude.jpg

By St. Eustace--also known as Hubert on Tuesday, March 6, 2001 - 12:25 am:

dreamcatcher.gif

Free Excerpt #1 of Dreamcatcher


ps to Say Whud:
Whud's a "land division ordinance"?
Enlighten us!
By Say Whud? on Monday, March 5, 2001 - 02:28 pm:

Does any township with forty miles of the bridge have a land division ordininanance?


By point escaped me on Sunday, March 4, 2001 - 04:14 pm:

Alder. Alder. C'mon, say it. Alder.

Good. Now, spell it.

Alder. Alder. It'll get to feel natural soon.
This will buy ya more credibiblity.
You're welcome.


By concerned on Sunday, March 4, 2001 - 03:26 pm:

I recently read the good post by "pris" on the Keweenawtoday web page. She details the horrors of development that's coming to the Keweenaw.

I was at the Gay bar recently and I heard more information about the Outlet Mall. The reason that Keweenaw is being looked at is because it is the second most popular destination in the state, behind Macinaw Island. With the 200,000 plus visiting the state parks a year, it seems that is a solid market.

If anybody could please give me information on this development I would appreciate it. If we can work together we can keep simple, our way of life.


By Lycidas on Sunday, March 4, 2001 - 03:03 am:

Hail Son of the Most High, heir of both worlds,
Queller of Satan, on thy glorious work
Now enter, and begin to save mankind...

...and from Heavenly Feast refresht
Brought on his way with joy; hee unobserv'd
Home to his Mothers house private return'd.



from Paradise Regained
John Milton
(1671)

By Jeffers On Aero-Plain --from a Soap Opera in Progress on Sunday, March 4, 2001 - 02:31 am:

Lather was 30 years old today
They took away all of his toys
His mother sent newspaper clippings to him
About his old friends who stopped being boys

But Lather still finds it a nice thing to do
To lie about nude in the sand
Drawing pictures that look like bumps
And thrashing the air with his hands

But that's all over
(CHILD)

Lather was 30 years old today
And Lather came foam from his tongue
He looked at me eyes wide and plainly say
Is it true that I'm no longer young?
("MOMMY?")

And the children call him famous
What the old men call insane
And sometimes he's so nameless
That he hardly knows what game to play
Which words to say
And I should have told him no you're not old
And I should have let him go on
Smilin'
Baby-wide


from(You are the)Crown of Creation
(1968)

By Inspector Clouseau on Sunday, March 4, 2001 - 01:40 am:

"What did you say?"
from A Shot in the Dark
(1964)

By Old Chinese Proverb on Saturday, March 3, 2001 - 09:50 pm:

You may have spoken, but did they hear.
They may have heard, but did they understand.
They may have understood, but did they agree.
They may have agreed, but will they act on it.
To live together, we must communicate on all levels.

By Opinion too on Saturday, March 3, 2001 - 03:38 pm:

moi,
I'm looking at a page of the platbook defining an area of Houghton County. The page contains an area under development for future home sites. The number of lots available in the area are few. The lots use an area of land equal to or greater than the incorporated land of Calumet and Laurium put together. The area is 887.2 acres in size. The land has been used for logging, farming, hunting, and other forms of recreation. Now it will be the site of individual home sites.

I understand that the individual lots are selling for more than 10X the amount of money I paid for my home, resting comfortably on a 50'x100' lot.

I don't know what the name of this new town will be, as it is close to several small towns, but is not a part of any one of them. Perhaps some general name like "203" or "five-mile" or "the canal"? Curious, isn;'t it, that developers were willing to develop this huge tract of land for a new town, while the actual towns around the area have little to fear of sprawling beyond reasonable borders? More later


By moi on Saturday, March 3, 2001 - 11:54 am:

Sorry. I stand firm. Do you really think that a prime piece of timberland would profit a company to be sold off, instead of being re-harvested each 15-20 years? Our 40 is old farmland with no timber value, as are the others around us. Sure, you may get a few aspens, maybe a couple of oak, but that's it. Do you expect land companies to hang on to unproductive land so you can walk it? Give me a break. Besides, our weather will deter the bulk of expansion of this area. I don't like the "must build a huge home" stipulation that LSLC puts on their lakefront pieces, but it is a free country, and that's their right. Like it or lump it, we'll never all agree.


By One who knows on Saturday, March 3, 2001 - 09:10 am:

Jeffers,

The laws you object to are rarely used against those who respect the authority of government officials and who follow the norms of society. Because the process of obtaining convictions can be long and unreliable, law enforcers need additional tools to punish those who stray from the straight and narrow.

No system is perfect, and these laws can be abused too. By and large, though, they help society by promoting a healthy fear of attracting the attention of law enforcement. They also provide a means for financing expensive high-technology law-enforcement activities without requiring tax increases. The link you posted mentioned a few regrettable instances of the more than 50,000 assest forfeitures per year. That's a pretty small percentage. We must accept the fact that a few people will be hurt temporarily for the good of society as a whole.

By the way, why would anyone carry or conceal more than $1000 in cash instead of putting it in a bank like everyone else? I'll bet that 90% of the time the person who does so is either a criminal or is trying to conceal something. Why shouldn't the law enforcement community confiscate the cash to force the person to reveal his activities? If he can demonstrate that the cash is legitimate, it will be returned to him in due course.


By Tom Cat on Saturday, March 3, 2001 - 08:54 am:

I heard this to day I thought I would pass it on.

This is a strange country we live in.
People borrow money that they don't have,
To buy things, they don't need.
To impress people, that they don't know.


By 2nd opinion on Saturday, March 3, 2001 - 08:48 am:

moi,
do you need more time to think about the information that 2nd opinion and 3rd opinion posted? do you still think it's ridiculous to imply that there's a problem in our rural areas that's related to private drives on 40's?

the 132' figure isn't even accurate. 40 acre splits of the land usually means 1/4 mile measurements. so for every mile of road, paved or dirt, you would have to figure 440 yards instead of 132'. That would result in a figure greater than 60,000 acres being removed from effective forest management--all in the name of the desire to get away from it all---all in the name of a desire that frees us from the bozos who prowl the town looking for problems to squawk about.

so while it is the desire of many to get away from it all, and the ability of a few to do so, while the land sees an increasing number of private driveways every quarter mile up and down both sides of the road (120,000 acres removed) of the road, those acres are also less likely to be utilized for effective forest management. and as was pointed out---we import a significant amount of wood.

so while we have a pining need to be "free" to pay ourselves the dividend of living in the country, we are punishing our future by removing timberland from the usuable resources...and of course that means less logging...fewer jobs...more and more wood imported from other areas...increasing the demand on other lands...

maybe it is time to begin pining for the long term? come back to the town square and find out who lives in town?

and the drive to the country outlined above does not address the loss of access to the woods for those who enjoy the sporting life, hunting, fishing, or getting away from it all. so it is a shame that there are not more "sportsmen" who are not up in arms about land usage, who are not at the table now to discuss land use planning.

and then there are the dirt roads that many will want to see paved, to cut down on the dust problem to address the airshed......


By the big green monster on Saturday, March 3, 2001 - 07:28 am:

concerned,
recently, i read somewhere on-line that the subway franchise was in the process of taking a competitor to court--the competitor was another food court establishment that caters to people concerned about their liver. apparently, either the "mall" where they are located, or the "location" where they do business, has some sort of anti-competition clause....subway, i understand, felt threatened...but i forget which one had been in the "area" longer.....

but then, when various outlets landed in the sharon avenue area of houghton, i didn't hear of any downtown businesses being vaporized by the forest jungle up on the hill....

rough dogs, barking, splashed into the river chasing sticks.....


By Concerned on Friday, March 2, 2001 - 10:17 pm:

Thank you everyone for the additional info.

I was at John's Family restaurant this morning and I heard some very interesting items. A gentleman told me that a couple of men were eating lunch there the other day and they worked for a Surplus Outlet Mall chain(I was told it is a mall that sold cheap brandname items) and they were looking at a couple of locations. One was in Mohawk and the other was near Deleware. This needs to be addressed. Can someone please add something to this. I don't like the idea of big business coming in and hurting local stores like Family Dollar and Pamida.

I'm try to learn how to use my email and I will post that next time.


By Jeffers on Friday, March 2, 2001 - 08:27 pm:

Government crimes against property owners go far beyond the occasional misuse of eminent domain laws. Asset forfeiture laws permit agencies to seize any property they covet from anyone they wish. See Legal Robbery by the Government. Well, not quite everyone--members of congress and former members of congress have exempted themselves from these (and many other) laws.

It's fine with me if people convicted of crimes lose their ill-gotten gains. But 80% of the time, agencies steal the property of those they know to be innocent and do not even charge their victims with a crime. They tell the victims that they can sue to regain their property, but warn their victims that the agencies will fight them using government-paid lawyers to the bitter end. They tell people point blank that they will have to spend more money on legal fees than the value of the stolen property that they hope to regain.

This tactic was originally intended to fight drug lords, but was so profitable that it has been expanded so it can now be used in hundreds of situations. Agencies budget for a certain amount of asset forfeiture income each year and put tremendous pressure on the people working for them to generate more and more asset forfeiture income.

At one time, drug agents routinely set up stings where they posed as drug buyers. They would then arrest the sellers and confiscate drugs before the drugs were sold on the street. The current laws have resulted in reversing this. Nowadays drug agents pose as sellers so that they can confiscate the money of buyers. This can get some scum off the streets, but it doesn't reduce the amount of drugs actually sold and used. About the only time that drug agents now set up a sting to confiscate actual drugs is when they run low on the drugs they need to plant in cars or property that they wish to confiscate.

In 1992, California police actually murdered Donald Scott of Malibu in a raid intended to steal his valuable ranch. The $5 million settlement to Mr. Scott's family hardly makes up for this governmental crime.

Some honorable members of Congress from both major parties, particularly Henry Hyde, Republican of Illinois and John Conyers, Democrat of Michigan, have fought these laws and last year succeeded in making some tiny improvements. However, they were arrayed against Janet Reno's Justice Department, against President Clinton, and against all the agencies who depend upon crime for a portion of their funding.

Perhaps the new administration will make some attempts to reduce the number of these crimes committed by their subordinates. I hope so, and I'm watching. But not patiently.


By Lode me up...lode me up like a good....should on Friday, March 2, 2001 - 04:40 pm:

yeah, you'd think that the University there in Houghton has enough enlightened minds wandering the passageways to help motivate the residents of Houghton County toward a land use planning with sustainable zoning that has some bite to it.

or that all the wealthy alumni that like to come to see the statues each winter would also notice the many changes that have been happening in the area, not all for the good.

but then, maybe land use planning in Houghton County doesn't rank up there with other ideals, like sounding the environmental trumpet when funds are needed for an environmental sciences building...or maybe the hope is that some graduates will go on to make a name and millions for themselves and give something back to the community...maybe even run for political office and effect change that way. until then, it's anyone's guess why so little is heard from so many with so much to offer.


By a little bird told me on Friday, March 2, 2001 - 09:59 am:

Enough said. I think everyone reading this gets the idea. We'll just let them draw their own conclusion, opinions, or judgement as to the type of decisions you make and the excuses for them.


By PaulEagleRiver on Friday, March 2, 2001 - 08:10 am:

Hey birdbrain, no reply to my deposit of the roofing materials? I thought for sure your beak would chirp out some more dirt on me like a DWI in my driveway, or maybe the time I was shooting skunks in town? I thought for sure my bad judgement on that beach party bonfire would have hit the web page. Your head that you use for a pecker must be worn out? The limb you perch on is rotted with grapevine slander but don't worry I will not ask for your real name. I am sure I will see you around and will be able to pick you out of a crowd. Chicken •••• is hard to cover up!!! As for me leaving the site no way , I just didn't have anything to add to the ideas that were being brought forth. Wheres Gary????????????


By Mucus Z. Quoyle on Friday, March 2, 2001 - 06:03 am:

Tommy Boy,
at that amount of oil in ANWR you'd think they would hold off until the price of tea in chile was a bit higher. besides, how are they going to convert that into diesel for those trucks parked on the equator?

i think we need a constitutional amendment to ensure gas at 1.06 a gallon.

and didn't they use to put stickers on the pump that told us how many $.00 were added per gallon in taxes? well, if they have stopped, at least a few tag elder bushes have been saved from the printers press.

at least he mentioned something about an energy policy...probably be like zoning around here...we'll get to it in 30+ years.


By Roaring March Lion on Friday, March 2, 2001 - 12:30 am:

The verdict is in(and is anyone really really surprised?):
Shakespeare's smoking pipes have been unearthed from his Stratford-upon-Avon garden and chemically analyzed to reveal some cannabis sativa(among other deposits) residue.


By JesusJesus Freak on Thursday, March 1, 2001 - 11:24 pm:

"We're on the threshold
of the OmniChrist"

Buckminster Fuller
(shortly before his death in 1983)


Click here for the Big Picture:

Bucky's 60-Carbon Ball

By Mr. Apathy on Thursday, March 1, 2001 - 10:20 pm:

To all you infernal interlopers who are tryin' to stir up land-use plans for us born, bred and intermarried Yoopers, hear this:

DON'T KNOW
DON'T CARE

By Be wary, very wary on Thursday, March 1, 2001 - 09:49 pm:

concerned,
yeah, I heard that some company from Kalamazoo, Straight-Up Stillness, intends to come to Houghton County and basically cut every tree in sight and put up qounset huts and import a bunch of southerners to work for peanuts by making leather gloves out of deerhides--that's over the winter. Summer, they're going to open fish marts just outside the city limits, begin hog farming next to that, and open an oats and grain processing plant (Quaker Oats) next to that, since its on the highway and close to shipping so a huge international conglomerate is going to force property takings on all of the camps and houses along both the Hancock and Houghton canals so they can make room for quay walls with big rubber tractor tires (gotta use them somewhere) for bumpers for the tuna boats that are going to winter here.

They figure, may as well, no zoning in HOughton COunty.


By Concerned on Thursday, March 1, 2001 - 06:55 pm:

I hope somebody could help me with some information. I have been a resident in this area for quite some time and I am becoming alarmed with talk of new people and businesses coming to the Keweenaw. I understand that there are some groups trying to put a stop to this and I respect and salute them.

A part of me feels like I should get involved in stopping people from coming here but part of the reason I moved to the Keweenaw is because I didn't want to get involved.

I saw what happened to Bruces Crossing, will we be next.

Please continue posting related information.


By 3rd opinion on Thursday, March 1, 2001 - 01:18 pm:

in michigan forestland,

  • corporate ownership...11%
  • national forest.....14%
  • state ownership.....20%
  • forest industry.....8%
  • private individual..45%
  • other...............2%


given those numbers, do you still want no oversight? or is that 45% all tag elder?

By moi on Thursday, March 1, 2001 - 01:02 pm:

Logging is absolutely a necessity. Companies don't sell good timberland for residential. They dump the lousy pieces.


By 2nd opinion on Thursday, March 1, 2001 - 11:53 am:

Michigan citizens consume about 750 million cubic feet of wood annually, whereas harvests from all forest ownership within our own State boundaries total only about 350 million cubic feet. We import a significant amount of wood.
With the desire to move to the country to get way from it all, fewer and fewer acres of forestland will be available for forest management, and of the acres that remain in forestland, the parcels continue to get smaller and smaller and less likely to be managed for timber. the further people are removed from logging, the more likely they are to oppose it. the need for products from trees is not going to go away, but the available acreage decreases with each acre set aside for a ponderosa in the pines. maybe if more people were opposed to logging around here, they'd be less likely to move to the country. in other areas, I can imagine, people aren't aware of what stood on the ground before that home in wildwood hills country club was built.
I'm looking at two pages from a platbook from cheboygan county. one page is dated, 1960;the other is dated, 1994. I can see where at least 6 sections of 640 acres each (1 SQ Mile) have been subdivided into 10 acre parcels and I assume each one of those 10 acre parcels has one home on it. A one square mile parcel, for example, could incorporate calumet and laurium within its boundaries. I've heard that the village of calumet had a population of 100,000-some thousand at one time. the manner in which these 6 sections have been subdivided allows for 64 homes in each one, 64 individual homes in an area that is comparable in size to all of calumet and laurium combined. and we want to say it is okay for 10-20-30-40 acre subdivisions of the land are okay since it is the desire of some to get away from it all and it is the ability of a few to do so?
Sorry, I got distracted there. where was I?

logging sites are not appealing to the eye. assume a buffer were left on either side of the road or trail and 132 feet along private boundaries. we'll call that buffer zone the desire to get away from it all, the desire to move to the country. someone with more time on their hands can calculate the acreage that would be removed from forest management, but taking a figure like 1250 miles x 132 feet buffer=20,000 acres removed from forest management.
(I'd try to calculate based on the roads and trails in Keweenaw County but I can't, as that page is unavailable, seems like the only page unavailable in the Keweenaw 2000 Economic Adjustment Strategy for Keweenaw County The next page, page 46, says LSLC has 1070 miles of primary and secondary logging roads and trails. 72 miles of local roads are noted, 28 miles of groomed snowmobile trails. I imagine there are more miles of roads, possibly the paved highway miles?


By moi on Thursday, March 1, 2001 - 08:30 am:

What's with this mentality of nitpicking others daily lives apart? Do people spy on others' work, then rush to their computer to squeal? Get a honest job already!!


By moi on Thursday, March 1, 2001 - 08:25 am:

I still think it's ridiculous to imply that there's a problem in our rural areas that's related to private drives on 40's. Fix the obvious, sure. Like the ramshackle buildings in town. Like potholes. Like sharp curves at intersections in roads with huge blindspots. Many of us live here specifically for the availability of private rural land that frees us from the bozos who prowl the town looking for problems to squawk about, then "solve" with laws. When we're not crowded in your mess, we don't need your silly restrictions. We'll stick with the common-sense laws that we already have, thank you.


By PaulEagleRiver on Thursday, March 1, 2001 - 08:23 am:

Bird with no feathers, I believe I answered your grapevine with what happened. I had 10 guys working on the Mountain Lodge. We had two pickups on site for material hauling. The transfer station is 38 miles from the Lodge. Eagle River is 18 miles. I had my whole crew stay at my place in Eagle River. Every time they came back from work they loaded the trucks up and unloaded in my front yard. I must say I underbid on the cost of disposal about 28 hundred dollars but the end result was debris in the dump. I seperated the metals for Patricks, the rest went to transfer. I had a bright idea to burn the shingles in barrels but Charlie who is my neighbor complained and that was that. I don't blame Charlie cause the smoke did stink. Thats where I got the ticket. 80 bucks to be told not to burn the ••••. It wouldn't work anyway cause the stuff just smoldered. So you see that I am not perfect but a two haul system worked. You must understand that four layers of shingles comes off only so fast and time was important because of Mothers Day opening. We tried to keep it as clean as possible. To give you a idea of how much debris 28 tons of roofing is take 110 square of roofing X 4 layers gives you 440 squares or roofing. A average home is 25 square so that would be about 17 normal homes of debris. You take me to the site that has mountain lodge shingles in the woods and I will clean it up!!!! You are a example of running mouth with no backup syndrome. Something like mad cow only it just effects birdbrains. Don't you think it might have hit the papers if 28 tons were left unhandled. SHOW ME THE SHINGLES!!!!!!!


By 3rd opinion on Thursday, March 1, 2001 - 06:33 am:

moi, Tim,
If there were people with the foresight to make plans for what the city on the Potomac would look like, why should your little town, or my little town, or anywhere for that matter, be any different.
The L'Enfant Plan Freedoms? Rules? More government, less government? We make plans all of the time, from the minute we get out of bed, to the time we lie down again at night. And they revisited land use planning again in Washington, D.C.
The McMillan Plan, 1901
and have you ever driven along one of the main streets in Houghton, Hancock, Calumet and realized the road you were on was not designed for heavy traffic use? do you think if the people responsible for the layout of our towns, if those people had a chance to come back and see some of the problems we are dealing with now, do you think they would like to have the opportunity to revise what was done?
but they cannot. we can.


By a little bird told me on Thursday, March 1, 2001 - 02:56 am:

Birdbrain?!!! By the way, who is the birdbrain who broke the law? What's your excuse? Oh what, we won't hear from you for a while here? That seems to be your pattern. By the way I am sure it can be found out exactly what went on with the debris. I would think it would not be too hard to find out. Is that part, or only part, of what your problem with our county attorney is. It seems to me, that she has only been doing her job!


By a little bird told me on Thursday, March 1, 2001 - 02:30 am:

Sorry, but a little bird told me it was more than a little fire that was started. It was a large amount of debris on the beach, roofing, boards and nails included, match in hand before being stopped and fined by the DNR. For someone who claims to love the area so much and wants the best for it, what is your excuse?!!!!! Ye who lives in class houses shouldn't throw stones!!!
So now, let's hear the rest of the story.


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