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Eight years ago on the Pasty Cam: 8/30/98^{Printed on Recycled Internet}

Eight years ago, the Pasty Cam featured this old floating dredge, which has become an landmark for many visiting the Keweenaw. Located on Torch Lake between Hubbell and Dollar Bay, the dredge is seen here in panoramic Pastyvision.

Happy Birthday to my hubby! Morning all!

Gee, I wish they'd remove that eyesore from Torch Lake, don't you guys?

Good morn to all!! Happy Birthday Ron!

Besprinkle: scatter

Bon Ani Ron!

Happy Birthday, Mr. Deb! Good morning, everyone.

I hope someone can help me. I was just skimming around on the internet and came across something about Grandma Grooters in Bruce Crossing having burnt down a few years ago. I recall going to a wonderful restaurant in Bruce Crossing when visiting the UP and wonder if this was it. Was Grandma Grooters right on a corner with rooms to rent over it? Or does someone have a picture of Grandma Grooters so I can see if this was the wonderful place we stopped to eat at?
Thanks bunches!
Best wishes to all!
Renee in AL

Happy Birthday Mr.Deb!

Happy Wednesday All!

Morning All.
Mr. Deb-- B-Day and Hump Day rolled into one, Good Day EH!
-Dean- Thank you for the Panoramic Pastyvision, a great twist on the normal everyday pictures.
Enjoy the day everyone!

There's a difference between ruins and eyesores - but what is it?

Cars cars cars:

http://www.dochemp.com/pnw1.html

Actually, I would much rather someone would try to preserve the old dredge and turn it into some sort of display/monument to the mining industry of the Keweenaw.

Renee, Grandma Grooters was out of town about 2 or so miles East of Bruce Crossing out in the country. I think I know the place in BC your talking about, right across from Settler's, just can't remember the name...

The "Dredge" as mentioned by Dean is a "landmark". With an historic past, I don't see it as a "eyesore" I suppose some people would like to see all traces of the past gone. Now that is sad........

Gramma Grooters is about a mile from Bruce Crossing. Across from Settler's is Tulppo's.

[I believe you are referring to Bundy's. It is right across the road from the Post Office on U. S. 45

Lest we forget, the dredge is a symbol of our mining past. Wish there was a viewing platform off the highway for closer photo-ops, and a historical information marker.

Tulpo's resturaunt is on the corner, accross from the co-op in Bruce Crossing.

I like that dredge, it's U.P. history.

Im sorry i agree with my sister, Im shocked the D&R never did nothing about it, Environmental reasons???

Every one is quick to brag/be proud of their heritage; but ironicaly want all traces of it to be removed.

If I had the money I would stabilize the Dredge and build a dock structure around it for people to admire and wonder. After all it( the reclamation process) added about 20yrs of prosperity to the local economy.A generation of proud people prospered during this time in our history. So for those who like to Dredge up the past fondly, lets not let these items disapear forever.

HAPPY BIRTHDAY, MR. DEB! :)

Hope you have a wonderful birthday :)

After 0ver 30 years, there is no envirnomental reason to remove the dredge. I don't believe it is on the National Register Historic Places yet, but I believe they are working on it. THE NPS has a publication that applies here, Guidelines for Identifying, Evaluating and Registering Historic Mining Properties (#42).

Just as a mother and father love an ugly child, we must remember that not all historic sites are beautiful, but each is important in its own way. In the case of the dredge, it allowed an addition number of years copper production. Many people do no realize that by its last years operating, the Quincy Mining Company produced more copper from reclamation than mining. C&H and Copper Range also reclaimed the sands and produced great amounts of copper this way.

I love the dredge and hope it remains for many years to come, but I too would like to see an interpretive sign so people understand its history and significance.

Now just to clarify re Bruce Crossing:

1. Tulppo's was (is?) on the SE corner of US45 and M28, just E of the corner parking lot, and on the opposite side of M-28 from da Co-Op store.

2. Bundy's was (is?) on the W side of M-28, about 1/8 mile S of US-45, on the opposite side of US-45 from da P.O.

3. Binder's, which was formerly right on the southwest corner of US-45 and M-28 also burned a few decades ago!

4. Strangely I never saw Grandma Grooters - (I guess I've been away too long?) ... although I understand that was a mile or two east of the US-45/M28 intersection, and it did burn down about two years ago.

This aerial photo (looking SSW from the ol' baseball field just north of the Co-Op store past Tulppo's toward Bundy's) might be helpful (I wouldn't want to violate Rick Anderson's copyright by posting the picture here, but I guess I can post a link): SkyPixs: Bruce Crossing, MI.

Speaking of Bruce(s) Crossing... how's this for a flashback?

More copper from reclamation than mining at Quincy?? Quincy mine pulled around 430,000 tons of copper from the mine compared to around 50,000 tons from reclamation; not nearly as much as the mine, but still a very respectable number considering they threw that much away in the beginning.

I would imagine that after almost 40 years it is much better to leave the dredge right where it is rather than disturb the lake bottom and stir up whatever nasties remain there. I'm sure that's what the EPA and DEQ are thinking as well.....

While I don't see the dredge as a thing of beauty, I kind of have to agree with Capt. Paul. Leave it be, eventually the ice and water will reclaim it. Who knows what lies beneath? Thank you for the birthday wishes dere youse guys!!!
Mr. Deb

It is great that we have the National Park Service to help us better understand the importance of our past historic sites. There were probably those who considered the Collesium in Rome an "ugly" site in it's day but thank God it is preserved so we can better understand their history..

Capt Paul,
Thanks for catching the error. I accidentally deleted the sentence where I meant to say at the end (late 60s and early 70s) Quincy reclaimed more than they mined. Just goes to show you gotta be careful on proof reading, which I am frequently poor at!

Wasn't there talk at one time of trying to move the dredge to the museum complex in Lake Linden? I know money is always an issue. I don't mind seeing it where it is. Remember the other one that you could just see the roof of poking out of the lake? That was a dredge too, correct? Seems like every time I post something I do get corrected!

There's no difference if it is an eyesore or a ruin.

ruins
the downfall, decay, or destruction of anything
eye•sore
Something, such as a distressed building, that is unpleasant or offensive to view

History is another thing. Many children do not know what the Colosium is in Rome.

I too have heard of a second sunken deedge, from some fishermen.

What's the full story?

This time Laurie you are correct!! It is the first dredge that had sunk. Did someone finally remove the top of the structure, or did the ice take care of it??

I kind of thought you had a typo there Richard. After 1945 and the mine closed, Quincy got 99.9% of their copper from Torch Lake by reclamation; there was a little work done in the mine by tribute and during later exploration work, but nothing large scale. I would like to see a pullout created there explaining the reclamation activities and how it ties into the mining history of the area. That might be one way to preserve the dredge AND the building from the ravages of the graffiti artists......

Here's a website about the dredges in Torch Lake...

http://www.exploringthenorth.com/coppertrips/roadtrip.html

For some strange reason I can't view it at work because the catagorization for the page is "weapons", which is blocked at my office!!! Gotta love state government......

Margaret, Amarillo TX:
"There's no difference if it is an eyesore or a ruin."

Well I guess the Italians better get with it and remove that horrible dilapidated old "eyesore" - the Colosseum or Coliseum, a.k.a Flavian Amphitheatre!

Three Dredges were purchased from the Bucyrus-Erie Co. in South milwaukee, Wi. A 18" hydraulic, electric powered in 1912. A 20" hydraulic, electric powered in 1923. A 20" hydraulic, electric powered in 1942. The 42 is the one visable in Torch Lake.

Tulppo's is still on the corner across from Settler's. Bundy's is now Char's across from the PO. Binder's is now the Alaskan Connection. And Gramma Grooter's burned down at least five years ago and hasn't been rebuilt.

frmash,,,Thanks for the information regarding the Coliseum in Rome...I visited the site in May and it took my breath away...also the ruins at Pompei...it was such an honor to walk on the Via-Apia on the same stones that were there at the time of Christ and St Peter and St Paul. Ruins are not eyesores but are treasures!!

Deb: I think that if they tried removing it they would stir up to much toxic material at the bottom of Torch Lake. I remember a lot of fish with ulcers on them in that lake. Now we couldn't have that, can we?

Hi Mr. Deb, So what did you buy Mrs. Deb for your Birthday. Did you cook her something really special for dinner? You know, it's the middle of the week, so that is special too. Come on Ron, you can tell us, we won't tell anyone. :) HAPPY BIRTHDAY

One more until we leave for Copper Harbor. Yah...

Lets not forget that the dredge looks a lot better now than it did in this photo. The clean up of the sands has now made the area around the dredge somewhat parklike.

Happy Birthday Ron guess you are just another old ruin like the dredges and the colliseam. Didn't know that Jesus walked around in Rome though.

Don't think Christ did get to Rome but the stones (Roman roads) were there at the time of Christ......hard to fathom when you look at the stuff that the early Romans did.... some ruins still standing more than 2000 years later...and some still functioning..like the beautiful marble bridges across the Tiber River...and the gates into what was once the walled-city...and the roads still used today that were there before the time of Christ...

I remember seeing the roof of the sunken dredge. The other one always caught my eye, but the last time I was up in that direction, I thought it looked pretty much like an eyesore myself. Historical, no doubt, but not too pretty to look at.
Same as the rust heaps on the Quincy side of the lake. We stay quite often at the Best Western Franklin Square when we visit up there. You're always asked lake or street side, and get charged more for lakeside rooms, but looking out and seeing all the old buildings and junk piles isn't very attractive, especially when the rest of the area is so picturesque.

I'm all for historical preservation...it would be great if some rebuilding and cleanup could be done to a lot of that stuff.

When I was growing up, I remember a lot of old buildings and stuff all along the shoreline in Houghton, stretching all along over to where that slide park is now..also on top of the hill across from Hardees and the bar.

Driving through Tamarack, Hubbell, and into Lake Linden, there were a lot of very large buildings. All of that is gone now. Its a shame, really.

Marylou, Regarding your question as to whether Christ got to Rome or not: The Roman Coliseum was where the Romans fed the Christians to the lions. The Coliseum was built by the Romans, because they considered this a spectators' sport.

Thus, Margaret's comment that very few school age children are aware of what the Roman Coliseum was.

Happy Birthday to son-in-law Jason Tapani of Chassell

Not sure if Christ actually did get to Rome. He appeared to St Peter on the Via Appia as St Peter was fleeing the burning city. St Peter asked him "Quo Vadis Domine"...shamed into returning to the Christians, St Peter was cruxified shortly after. The Via Appia was lined with the crosses of early Christians during the time of Nero. At the corner of the catacomb on the Via Appia is a small chapel with the inscription "Quo Vadis Domine" marking the site where Christ apeared.

PS.....I was taught about Rome and early Christian History as a child at St Thomas Aquinas. Why wouldn't children be taught about Romam History? Every child should know about the Roman Colisium...we owe much to the "glory that was Rome"...good and bad.....Ruins are a good way to teach..

Go sit in a classroom, Mary Lou. You'll find things different today.

Does anyone remember that a man was killed when there was an explosion on the one dredge? I remember the sirens going off that day many years. Mr Matson from Bunker Hill was injured. For years you could see the one dredge sticking out of the water But the water finally claimed it altogether. It would be quite expensive but it would be nice if they could make a museum out of the one on the bank of the lake.

Well, I still think it's an eyesore. It would be nice to keep it there, but to DO something with it to make it a little more attractive. You know, kind of like Mason. And yes, I do remember the other one that eventually disappeared. Somebody got killed on that one I believe. There's still a lot that needs to be done in between Mason and Lake Linden. All of those C & H buildings should be taken down too. They, too, are an eyesore. I love them cuz I remember my grandpa working there, but they really are unattractive.

I don't know why someone doesn't set that dredge upright where it is. The amount of 'nasties' that would be disturbed would be nothing compared to what was there for years. Let 'em cover it with some more stamp sand. They'd figure out a way to handle it. At least the dredge would be saved. There could be a building put up as a museum for artifacts from the Quincy Mining Co. Could be part of the Keweenaw Historical stuff. Why not?

The Colloseum (or Coliseum) was built as a place to watch gladiator combat and fights among wild animals. It was also where Christians were fed to the lions. Naval battles were also staged in the colloseum as it could be flooded for boats.
Roman architecture is a fascinating thing. I remember a few years ago in France (or Gaul, as the Romans called it), there were terrible floods. When the flood waters receded, all but one of the bridges in this little town had washed away. The one left standing was the one the Romans had built.

As far as education goes, don't get me started. I deal with ignorance in my classroom every day. Events should not be ignored just because they weren't nice. There are harsher sides of history. The world isn't an ideal place.
Kids not knowing what the colloseum in Rome was for... I just wish the ones that walk into my classroom knew where Rome was!

New York, right?
Sorry Dr. Nat, I couldn't resist!
Mr. Deb

Mr. Deb,
Either Rome New York...or Rome Tennessee...or Rome Georgia...or Rome Indiana...or Rome Illinois ;)

Or Rome Michigan where the apples come from?

Mikie, for just a second I thought you were pullin' my leg, but no, I guess you weren't:



Rome Center, Rome Twp, 8 miles NW of Adrian in Lenawee County, SE Lower MI

Mr. Deb
I'd be happy if they could find any Rome!
I teach at a college just north of Houston, •••••. Several students in class couldn't even put Houton on the map in the correct location when given a blank map of •••••. Not good.

Now there's proof that Dr. Nat and I live in the wrong place, when the name of the state we live in is censored on PastyCam ;-)

I know its sad that kids can barely find their own state on a map. You could really goof their minds up and ask them where the 52nd state is, just to see what kind of answers you'd get. Learning isn't just about getting the test answers right.

••••• is a dirty word?

I have to try the ••••• thing too. Uh oh. Guess I'm a sucker.

Dr. Nat: I'm just putting together my lesson plans to teach Early
Civilizations. It's part of the Grade 5 curriculum in Ontario. The
Romans will be studied in my class along with the Greeks, the
peoples of Mesopotamia, the Egyptians, the Mayans, the Ancient
Chinese and the aboriginal peoples of North America.

How did you do that ••••• thing???

I remember visiting a class (contemporary affairs or something) in NH years ago, when we compared who could name the states of the others' homecountry (USA vs. Germany). I got stuck somewhere above 40, but it took three or four of them to name some states in Germany.
But they sure knew where NH was, and Concord.

Sorry, but - •••••? ???

Dallas, I could understand!

"Fascinating."

Okay, I have to see this for myself. Since when is ••••• a dirty word?

I'm with Danbury, this is fascinating that ••••• is a censored word, but not the town name of Spread Eagle.

Thank you Kosk! There is so much one can learn from history. I hope you have a good time teaching and I hope your students appreciate the adventure of learning.
One of the best teachers I ever had told me that whenever I study history to remember that my ancestors lived at the time those events were happening. So whether I was studying the Punic Wars or the Black Plague, I tried to imagine where my ancestors might have been at that time and what they could have been doing. It definitely personalised history.

Hmm... I wonder if any other states are naughty words, or is it just •••••?

There are a lot of Michigan streets in other states, but very few ••••• streets. I wonder if they just don't like to see ••••• listed in there maps of the states. I wonder if Minnesota has a ••••• city, or even a Rome city.What do you think Frank?

Dr. Nat,

That's mighty fine advice! Thank you.

The television series Picket Fences was set in the town of Rome, Wisconsin, which is presumably not intended to be either of the actual Romes in wis.

Dr Nat.. when my cousin, Heidi came to visit from Switzerland she brought me a gift of our family "Coat of Arms" ....the symbols told the story of our family in the Second Crusade done in glass by an artist in Basel (formerly an ancient Roman city). They were Peasants but were hired as mercenaries to fight on the side of France in the Crusade,.....it suddenly made that history very real....In Switzerland most families have a "Coat of Arms" maybe it's a teaching tool to inspire students to learn their own history.....

A little comic relief when I tuned in to catch up on postings today. A couple of months ago when we had the spam attack by the 'Texas Holdem Poker' virus, we blacklisted the words 'Texas' and 'Poker'. This at least slowed down the virus, until we had time to develop a security patch.

We apparently left those words blacklisted, because I just corrected this, before posting this note. (Otherwise, my Texas would also have been the red dots like those above.)

A big Texas thanks Charlie.

Too funny, Charlie.

It's been fun though.

Thank you very much all who answered!! It had to be Tulppo's I visited then as it was on the corner of US 45 and M28. Great, great walleye dinner I had there along with hot German potato salad. MMmmmmm!!
Best wishes,
Renee in AL